Why are so many women putting up with ghastly husbands/partners?

[Dottymug]

It's the 21st century. Women have so many more opportunities and choices than they had in the past. So why are so many women posting on here about being sworn at, insulted, betrayed and treated as slaves by men who they've no intention of leaving/chucking out? It's utterly depressing. Don't put up with that shit. Life is too short.

So very true. And its all, but it was an accident. We werent really trying.

Worse yet, why are they having so many children by them?

Don't they care about saddling their offspring with shitty lives??

Good point.

I know. There is one now with three kids under six, lamenting her horrible "partner." I mean, what the fuck? Didn't she care about the circumstances her kids would be born in, and the damage he'd do to them?

Makes you wonder how come they are happy to sleep with their oh if they are that awful.

All very well in theory - but try doing this with an autistic child who absolutely needs his mum all of the time.

The empathy is low in the last few posts. Better to sneer and sit in judgement at these pathetic women who are so desperate for babies. 🙄

So let's say a sahm gets divorced, needs to find work, assuming she shoulders most of the childcare as her ex already has a full time job.

The odds are already stacked high against her.

Look, people mostly marry and have a family on good faith. Naive and risky, yes but I guess we have all believed our other halves when they have promised and pledged this that the other.

I don't really see how this thread berating women for making choices that leave them vulnerable is helpful at all.

Any constructive suggestions for those SAHMs now facing punishments of a divorce, family responsibilities and poverty?

@BlastedPimples

So let's say a sahm gets divorced, needs to find work, assuming she shoulders most of the childcare as her ex already has a full time job.
The odds are already stacked high against her.
Look, people mostly marry and have a family on good faith. Naive and risky, yes but I guess we have all believed our other halves when they have promised and pledged this that the other.
I don't really see how this thread berating women for making choices that leave them vulnerable is helpful at all.

You're not wrong at all. The odds are hugely stacked against SAHMs, which is why the narrative needs to change to emphasise how risky a position this is.

It's not about blaming or stigmatising SAHMs, they deserve all the help and support they can get to remove themselves from difficult situations. But let's be honest about this. It's not a good position to put yourself in and it's something we should be discouraging.

But despite the huge growth in women working, the reality is that there is still so much rhetoric, on here and IRL, that suggests that being a SAHM is the optimal situation and that getting married protects you from abuse like some magic amulet. Whenever there's a thread about "why won't he marry me?" there's an immediate pile-on of people saying: "you were very foolish not to get married before having children." They're sort of right but they are looking at it totally the wrong way around. They ought to be saying: "you were foolish to give up work when you had kids". The emphasis is wrong. And these attitudes are still so prevalent.

It is extremely naive and risky to get married "in good faith" and that's a big problem for women (and often, children). It's not something women should be blamed for and obviously there are some women who need to be supported, due to illness or disability or whatever. But it should not be something aspirational, which it still very much is in many quarters.

It's not good to have women sleepwalking into situations where they are either financially dependent or supporting a man to do nothing just because they were "in love" and fancied a wedding and no one thought to sit them down and warn them of the risks.

Yes it's probably too late for a generation of women who thought that a big white wedding and a ring around their finger would protect them and are stuck without savings, pensions, or a home unless they come attached to a man. But it's not too late for us to raise a generation of women which stops thinking of marriage as the ultimate goal in life and starts thinking about how to build financial independence.

I was a massive people pleaser and codependent. I'd been brought up to be that way and my mum and aunts were all the same.

My granda and lots of men on that side of the family drank heavily. I think subconsciously or otherwise, I ended up with a few friends with drink or drug problems, where my role was to listen to them. Same as the boyfriend I went to therapy for.

I'd also been brought up in a religion with a lot of guilt and focus on forgiveness, so felt I had to let people off with everything.

People knew I'd put up with it. One person was absolutely shocked when I cut them off after therapy.

Because society as a whole still perpetuates the belief that being in a couple is somehow better and anyone not in a couple should be actively seeking a partner.

Because so many women give up work and their financial independence when they have children, often because childcare is so expensive and there is still gender disparity in many workplaces when it comes to pay rendering it unfeasible for the male in the relationship to give up work, and society still assumes women will take the primary function as caregiver.

Because female fertility has a cut off point that male fertility doesn't, meaning women who want children are more likely to settle for an imperfect man to fulfil a biological need to have children before it's "too late".

Because once you are financially intertwined with someone it is very difficult to leave. The splitting of assets, starting afresh, dividing children's time between parents, managing co-parenting, affording to live on one salary is hard and overwhelming and, once again, society perpetuates a belief that children are always better as part of a nuclear family unit.

I do find it hard to fathom when women choose not to work way past the point of needing to pay for childcare. It makes it so very difficult to leave if you ever need to.

Wow. That's actually true. Also, if they have children together and they then witness the poor 'bad boy' influence on their children.

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune

Absolute lack of empathy in your comments. And full of victim blaming.

Man is abusive and shitty yet its the woman is blamed for having kids with him.

If it was easy to find and stay with sweet reliable kind men then we wouldn't have so many domestic abuse charities. 1 in 4 women get abused at some point in their life by a man and its not their fault - its the person committing the abuse we need to be questioning

@Saturday82 I'm so glad therapy has empowered you to cut those off who are leeches in your life!

Wishing you all the best on this journey as it can be so hard to change your mindset when it's all you've had around you and what starts to seem normal, but just take one day at a time!

Umm, no one HAS to have a man in their life. Someone who lazily settles for a shit man is not a victim.

There is no easy answer to this.

But I did also want to applaud @OverTheRubicon for a brilliant summary of likely issues.

Yes, yes and yes! I do blame women for choosing shitty, abusive losers to sire their offspring.

And I do not believe all of the "oh he was perfect until he did a 180-degree character swop..." tales. Maybe once in a blue moon, but I bet if you asked the friends and family, they'd say the signs were always, always there.

People need to be more selective, to take a long, long time to get to know their partner's true nature, and to establish financial independence. None of this "ooh we were dating for six weeks and then I fell pregant and he seemed pleased and I couldn't bear to terminate but then he dumped me when the baby was three months old and had quit my job to be SAHM but now have nowhere to go" bullshit. Who's fault is that??

Hubris often precedes nemesis, @ZeldaWillTellYourFortune.

Or we have to educate girls and women that being partnered and having children is not the be-all, end-all, and how to not "fall pregnant," and how to relish financial and social independence rather than hooking up and conceiving with the first man who gives them 10 minutes of attention.

Locking the barn door after the horse has escaped, and after legions of unfortunate children are being damaged every day by the shit situations their parents created, is useless. Prevention is key.

I got one word to say to you, Kel: structural misogyny

I think lots of women try to see the best in people so can be ideal prey to expert manipulators whose tactics are so subtle you don't know what's going on until it's too late. You can't comment on this unless you've been through it. I have & it's hell

Totally agree with you. Financial independence is key for women, not just a secret running away bank account (just in case), but also gives esteem and respect within the partnership. Women, not just on MN, do frequently seen to take a load of abuse, inappropriate behaviour, put downs and unequal share of housework/childcare. The number of posts talking about getting a DP or DH to babysit their own children is infuriating. Women seeking their partner's permission to go out, to spend money etc, are we still in the 19th Century? I suppose it does reflect back onto the woman and how much they are willing to put up with or forgive for the sake of having Mr Charming living with them. If you've got no children you have zero reason to remain with a gaslighter, adulterer, lazy f**r, children make it much harder. However, we all need to be role models for our children, what message does it send out if you remain with a poor partner.

Single mothers are horribly stigmatised and blamed for being single. It is often a road to poverty and isolation.

TBF, if no-one had a partner in their life, the housing crisis would be much, much worse and far more people would never be able to grow up as they would be stuck living with thier parents until their 40s or so.

Indeed @Retractable

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune you have no idea how control & coercion works. It was made illegal 5 years ago for a reason. Because its so difficult to escape from. And the impact on someone's self esteem is so huge. Women don't pick men because they "have to have a man". They are worn down by manipulative controlling tactics until they have no confidence, no hope. You think women can just walk out the door? I hope you never have to experience living in fear, or being gaslit until you don't know up from down any longer. Women aren't "picking" that situation cos they want a man on their arm. It's so much more complex than that.

You think women want to be with someone that makes their stomach flip when they hear their partner's key in the door? We need much more support and education earlier on for sure. But for the women currently living in terrible situations with horrible, manipulative and cruel men - they need support, empathy and for people to take one minute to try and understand what their life looks and feels like - not other women judging them and saying "why don't you just leave" - the question we should be asking is why men keep treating women this awfully.