Was it my fault she died?

[howcaniknow]

I really love my mum. However I did not grow up with her, I grew up with my grandparents (saw my mum every week) and we did not have a conventional mother daughter relationship as a result. There was pain and hurt there when I was a young adult at times, although we had loads of fun together too.

She preferred to have firm boundaries around me, I think. I was always welcome for visits but her house wasn't my home. I am ashamed of this because it's childish and pathetic but I craved being 100% fully wanted by her and felt such deep shame that she didn't want me living with her. My siblings lived with her and it's like a blank space in my mind that can't work out why I was not "worth it" on the same level as they were.

I know this is just nonsense obviously as an adult and don't believe that has anything to do with my worth - but sometimes it still hits me over the head and I just feel so ashamed and distressed. It embarrasses me.

We developed a great relationship later on. However, by this time I had grown up and learned how to enjoy the relationship for all the good things it was, and let go of the rest.

But a big part of this was never, ever arguing with my mum or pressing my opinion on her - I think she always felt I was too pushy and demanding and put my own wants and needs first. I reckon I was guilty of that for years as was demanding, always needing support. I am 100% aware that I was a shit person in that respect.

When she got sick she was very appreciative of my support which I was glad to do, but I was always too afraid to argue with her and push her. She was very keen to explore all options which we did together and did a virtual appointment with a very good doctor, but I didn't push her to move to a bigger hospital.

Maybe if I had REALLY pushed her, she would have gone and even if she had stopped talking to me, she might still be alive?

The other thing is maybe I should have been pushier about going to her town and actually going with her to appointments but again I was afraid. There was nowhere for me to stay and due to my own disability I can't drive.

But really - I prioritised my own disability and my own health. Having no access to my own doctors and things I need to manage my own health makes my own disability worse so I just put myself first. Again, if I had navigated things in a better way, would she possibly still be alive?

Am I just a shit daughter?

I think you might be misreading some of your mothers actions, you say there were no MH issues but honestly MH issues can be very subtle - but pervasive.
Firstly you say she couldn't understand why you were depressed as you got older - this is quite a shocking lack of empathy IMO. A child wants their mother above all else, you watched your siblings grow up with her while you were always kept on the edge of things - how could she not understand?
You learnt that you were always to put her needs and wants ahead of yourself, the things you did with her were always entirely on her terms, you were only allowed to help and support her and her opinions, not entitled to your own.

I doubt you were unreasonable at all in pushing your own needs and wants for years - why would you not? You are an individual, not a clone of her. You learnt from her though that that was unacceptable. You say you were always needing support like that was unreasonable, she was your mother, that was her job surely? Your MH was in a mess because for whatever reason she left you with your grandparents. This was an ongoing trauma for you IMO, where she was there to some extent but not really there and you never felt that unconditional love from her or like you were a priority to her. That is what every child craves surely?

Now you feel you've failed her. Can you see how that is no surprise at all? You have been trained almost to take that position. You are also incredibly defensive about her - the sort of defensiveness I have seen in young children whose mothers are neglectful or abusive.

There's a child inside you who just desperately wanted to be loved and accepted by her mother but for whatever reason your mum just couldn't give that to you. It wouldn't surprise me if she did have NPD either but I can see you're really struggling with that as an idea as you have her on a pedestal and can only see the perfect life she appeared to have with your siblings. I tihnk therapy might really help you, good luck OP!

Stop making excuses for your mother and defending her. Maybe if you could understand she was a terrible mother and the problem was with her, not you then you could stop blaming yourself. Nothing was your fault, nothing. You behaved badly in the past because of the way she treated you.

Please please please, let go of your pain. Appreciate the good. The good times, the good things you had and the good you did. No matter what happens you was there. You were present in your mums life and that’s all that matters. We are born with nothing and die with nothing. Appreciate your journey. Sending love and a hug. It’s ok to look back and wonder but nothing can be changed. Let it go and know she is around you xxx

PS I think you are thinking of grandiose NPD whereas she is more likely to have had covert NPD IMO.

No it wasn't your fault at all! As you said, she had other children who lived with her and yet you went above and beyond considering the background. Please get help as it seems you have always been desperately yearning for her love, which of course is completely understandable and you have always blamed yourself? You have been a wonderful daughter, some would have walked away years ago but you are a deep, kind and caring person, that is why you are carrying this unnecessary amd undeserved guilt. Sorry I'm no psychologist but I'm an empath and can relate as I've gone through similar feelings myself. You really need someone professional to talk to to help you understand this my lovely, they are there to help. You're amazing, your Mum knew that too and even if she did move to a bigger hospital there was no guarantee it would have helped, slightly possible to have prolonged but would she have wanted that? Huge hugs. Xxx

It's really not helpful to try to ram down my throat about what a shit mother she was.

I certainly do not have her on a pedestal. During my twenties when we were not getting on, I expressed all my pain. Bluntly. She was under no illusion at the anger and hurt I had.

That was an awful time but I had to say all the stuff I said to her and am glad I said it all, before she died. I don't feel like I wanted or needed to say anything else to her.

No words but sending you the biggest cuddle in the World darling girl xxx

I seem to be doing a crap job at explaining the whole situation and articulating my feelings, and this makes me wonder if therapy will be an exercise in frustration.

But once again, no, i am not defending my all my mum's decisions, some I cannot understand and have majorly affected me. But I did feel loved. It's really hard to describe.

@howcaniknow you need to try and find your peace here. You never did anything wrong. You were a brilliant daughter. Kind, patient, conscientious and forgiving.

Any decision she made re care etc was here to make. You could have pushed her more but that wasn't who you are, nor did you have that kind of relationship, and to be honest there's a very good chance that additional treatment wouldn't have saved her life, or if it did it would only have been temporary.

When she died she knew you cared and you knew she cared. You loved each other despite everything and you can't ask for more than that. She is at peace. You deserve to be too.

@howcaniknow

“ It's actually helpful as I said earlier in the thread - even writing this post makes me realise this is why it's easy to feel like the problematic person, because my mum and her nuclear family were all fine and happy with everything in the whole dynamic and the only one who wasn't was me.“

maybe they were not all fine and happy with everything? Perhaps they all just put on a brave face and got on with it. You don’t know - not all families talk about things like this.

In many cultures and generations it wasn’t the done thing to talk about things like this.

im not saying you should shut up BTW OP, we all handle things in our own way .

I don’t understand why so many posters are staying that your mum was a shit mum op. I think it sounds like she just did what she thought was best at the time , as did you your gran. Same as you have done.

I don’t see abuse or narcissism here , from what the Op has said. I just see 3 generations of women who are ordinary fallible human beings, trying to navigate a path through famIly like, which is always complicated . None of us have “normal families”. We are all a bit fucked up in different ways.

please speak to a counsellor or theorist OP. Your family is not that weird or unusual or complicated and your feelings are perfectly normal and understandable in your situation.

talking about it with the right person will really help I promise .

OP, I'd have this deleted, maybe after copying any messages that you find helpful, and think about seeing a professional. I don't think your mother was a bad mother, but neither is any of it your fault. She may have just been doing what she felt was best at the time if you were settled with grandparents already who had raised you like their own child.

You really are not a “shit daughter”. Sometimes (eventually) people become poorly and their bodies cannot continue to function. They pass away.

She was an adult and she took responsibility for her medical treatment and choices. It sounds as though she appreciated the support you gave and that your relationship was in a good place when you lost her. You love her and she knew that and loved you too. It doesn’t sound from your post that she ever complained about your input or that she blamed you for not doing more. That’s because mothers don’t expect their children to be responsible for keeping them alive - that’s what we do for our children!

Sometimes seeking more and more treatment can be counterproductive and just end up with a more traumatic illness and eventual passing. You have no way of knowing what would have happened with your mums illness if X, Y or X had been different. You do know that she did what was right for her.

It’s very hard to accept loss and to go through grief, especially when there are unresolved feelings of rejection and loss already from your childhood. Therapy might really help you work through this. There are also grief groups l, and organisations like Macmillan offer support to people who are experiencing grief in connection to particular illnesses. Have a look and see if there’s anything like this near you, ask your GP if they are aware of any resources you could access. Support of this kind may be helpful to you.

I’m very sorry for your loss. I’m also quite sure your mum wouldn’t want you to be blaming yourself in any way. 💐

I don’t know your Mums situation on why she chose to give you to your Grandparents so have no reason to judge her as others rudely have but what I do know is it is completely normal to feel upset and incomplete when you’ve grown up outside of your parents home.
I can 100% say that you did amazing being there for your Mum in her time of need and I’m sure she would of felt such pride and happiness knowing you put the past aside and was there for her.
You sound like a lovely person who’s putting way too much pressure and blame on themselves, you didn’t do anything other then good for her. There are so many kids that wouldn’t bother to support a parent who had given them the world and there you are putting your hurt aside and supporting her, that’s amazing!
As for how you felt as a kid your feelings are completely valid and we’d all feel the same xx

I really feel for you OP. Please consider counselling to help you get some closure. But more than anything, please don’t blame yourself for anything. It sounds like you’ve been a caring and loving daughter. Your mum was very lucky to have you. I am sorry for your loss. Xxx

“I craved being 100% fully wanted by her and felt such deep shame that she didn't want me living with her.”

@howcaniknow There is nothing more normal and healthy than wanting to be fully wanted by our mother. I am no kind of therapist but as children we developmentally cannot make sense of things around us and so always put ourselves in the center of the narrative. So therefore if your mother didn’t keep you with her as a child you assumed the problem lay with you and not your mother. You assumed there must be something wrong with you which induced such a strong sense of shame (shame is feeling bad about who we are, rather than anything we did). You also seem to have assumed that it was wrong to still desire her and a fully bonded relationship with her.

Do you know anything about your very early life? Where you with her as a baby, even for months, weeks or days? This could’ve meant you formed the deep bond that was disrupted and which as an infant and small child you could never understand.

I apologize I have not read the entire thread so this may be something you already mentioned.

Also as someone who has experienced trauma after trauma that were out of my hands (bereavement and serious illness) I know at times this has affected my children through no fault of anyone. I know I find it very difficult to reflect on as the pain is so difficult to handle. My grown kids reassure me they are fine and not to blame myself but I can remember times I know they needed me and I couldn’t respond. I only say this, not to excuse your mother, but she may have also experienced a lot of trauma that she was forced to suppress so she could survive and maybe care for other children. Our parents are all imperfect and you may well be also mourning what you wish you had with your mother that now you have to accept is unattainable.

I have been seeing a psychologist who specializes in trauma for some time and she has helped me so much, especially with my own shame, guilt and self-blame.

As children it’s less painful to blame ourselves for problems with bonding than our parents, as it is too frightening for a small child to think of our parents as flawed in ways that could threaten our survival (in a child’s mind). For a mother not to physically be there would naturally produce strong emotional reactions in a small child, especially craving her presence.

Im sorry OP.

I think you did all that you could, and more than most would given the backstory.

It probably sounds counter intuitive but perhaps you need to go through a process of forgiving your mum. When you find peace with the past, hopefully you’ll find peace with her memory.

Sending love xx

I think you need to see a therapist Op. No one is taking away from you the love you had for your Mum. But, I believe there is alot of denials going on here as to why your Mother did not take responsibility of you as a child. Whether you were head strong or not...she was the Adult and you where the child. You should have known before your Mum died her reasoning for why she believed you should have lived with your Grandparents rather than with her....the reason why your Mum took responsibility for your other siblings and not you. Those reasons should have been made clear to you before she died. You had every right to know the reasons why you where separated from your Mum and other siblings. The fact that you felt you could not ask her for the truth of the matter is simply not good enouph on her behalf. Your Mum was putting walls up between you and not letting you reach her for the truth!!

I think under the circumstances You were very generous to her in your time and not requesting more from her...you where entitled to more...You deserved more and ... but she has tried to control your needs. You do not mention your Father ... did you have contact with him? I do not think you should have to question your own behaviour in all of this situation. You wanted and needed what your other siblings got and you where denied it and your Mother owed you an explanation.

Your Mother was fully capable of making her own decisions as she proved to you right through your life... she would have made her own decisions at the very end of her life according to her needs as she had done right through your life. You need to talk this through with a Therapist and get to the point of understanding how your Mums decisions affected you as a Child...You seem to hold onto some blame... like you will have done as a child when trying to understand why your Mum made the choices she did in not allowing you to live with her. It was never your fault... you where an innocent child...your Mother was the Adult and she made the choices in your life for you not to live with her...she owed you an explanation before she left this world...but failed to give you an explanation so as you could maybe try to inderstand her choices. She singled you out...she should never have done that to you... she was very lucky to have you around her ... many people would have walked away and not give her the time of day. Yet you give her your time to the very end despite everything. You are not at fault for any of it...your Mother was at fault.

Your mum sounds like a shit mum. She never gave you the unconditional love you deserved as a child. You didn't let her down, she hugely let you down.

Please read the OP's posts

Respectfully, I am asking people to please not insult my mum. It feels like trampling over the good relationship we did have, and it is dismissive of the love that was there between us.

I am under no illusions that some of her choices around me were not good. They are difficult to understand and I guess i may never understand. I do not have her on a pedestal.

Pretty offensive that OP is making it clear that her mother was not abusive and she was loved, and has asked you not to call her mother - who she loved dearly - a ‘shit mother’.

Life is not black and white, people are not either all good or all bad, narcissist or angel, good mother or bad mother. People are complex and so are their relationships and family dynamics.

Your mother was an adult and responsible for her own health decisions. Don't blame yourself.

Meant to add “and people still insist on doing that”

I cannot believe how disrespectful people are. Some people don’t care about supporting you, just projecting their own issues.

No lots of people don't have this set up OP. You would send ALL the kids to the dads house if that was the case not just 1.

You have done so well tbh. To continue a relationship with your mum. From what age didn't you live with your mum?