Was it my fault she died?

[howcaniknow]

I really love my mum. However I did not grow up with her, I grew up with my grandparents (saw my mum every week) and we did not have a conventional mother daughter relationship as a result. There was pain and hurt there when I was a young adult at times, although we had loads of fun together too.

She preferred to have firm boundaries around me, I think. I was always welcome for visits but her house wasn't my home. I am ashamed of this because it's childish and pathetic but I craved being 100% fully wanted by her and felt such deep shame that she didn't want me living with her. My siblings lived with her and it's like a blank space in my mind that can't work out why I was not "worth it" on the same level as they were.

I know this is just nonsense obviously as an adult and don't believe that has anything to do with my worth - but sometimes it still hits me over the head and I just feel so ashamed and distressed. It embarrasses me.

We developed a great relationship later on. However, by this time I had grown up and learned how to enjoy the relationship for all the good things it was, and let go of the rest.

But a big part of this was never, ever arguing with my mum or pressing my opinion on her - I think she always felt I was too pushy and demanding and put my own wants and needs first. I reckon I was guilty of that for years as was demanding, always needing support. I am 100% aware that I was a shit person in that respect.

When she got sick she was very appreciative of my support which I was glad to do, but I was always too afraid to argue with her and push her. She was very keen to explore all options which we did together and did a virtual appointment with a very good doctor, but I didn't push her to move to a bigger hospital.

Maybe if I had REALLY pushed her, she would have gone and even if she had stopped talking to me, she might still be alive?

The other thing is maybe I should have been pushier about going to her town and actually going with her to appointments but again I was afraid. There was nowhere for me to stay and due to my own disability I can't drive.

But really - I prioritised my own disability and my own health. Having no access to my own doctors and things I need to manage my own health makes my own disability worse so I just put myself first. Again, if I had navigated things in a better way, would she possibly still be alive?

Am I just a shit daughter?

You are certainly not a shit daughter Op, you were forced to have a relationship within the boundaries your mum set for you, and I think you were extremely gracious and forgiving to accept this and forge a relationship with her within those boundaries.

My heart hurts for little you being rejected in that way when your siblings weren't, and can only say that, as a mother and a daughter, this was in no way down to anything you were or did, and solely down to issues your mum had.

I sincerely hope your grandparents gave you a loving upbringing and that you can come to terms with the relationship you had with your mum. I cone from a complicated family and can say that in my experience, motherly love is neither unconditional nor a foregone conclusion, but it is never, ever to do with the child. Children have no blame, and you must have made your Grandparents so very happy to have taken you in and loved you instead.
Please be kind to yourself op, and if you can afford it perhaps seek some counselling to cine to terms with your upbringing.

I think there's a lot to unpick here and you'd probably benefit from talking therapy because of the way this has affected how you feel about yourself and is likely to colour your relationships with other people too.

this is what I did too

OP it sounds like both your mum and your grandma loved you lots and wanted the best for you and that it wasn’t always easy for either of them to know what the best thing to do was for a baby born to such a young mum who also needed to finish her education and get established in life. But both of them were trying hard, in their own ways, to help you grow and learn and have a happy, safe, secure childhood. And from the sounds of things they mostly succeeded? Some things, like how your father behaved, were beyond their control, and it was inevitable that they didn’t always agree perfectly on every issue that cropped up. But, without invalidating the complicated feelings you understandably have around how you were raised, do you feel that both your mum and grandma loved you and wanted you to be happy and successful in life? Because that’s something to hold on to.

OP you experienced a deeply and profoundly painful rejection by your mother that cannot be underestimated. And it is compounded by the fact that it doesn't seem clear why you were sent away whilst your siblings were not As well as feeling a great amount of love for your mother, it would be extremely natural for a part of you to feel intense anger, even hatred, towards her as well but feel too guilty about those emotions to be conciously aware of them. I hope this doesn't sound too bizarre but a part of you may even (totally unconciously) have wanted to inflict pain on her in retaliation for the intense pain she caused you, and this may be why you are feeling guilty now, as if your feelings may have somehow caused your mother's death. YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME. As others have said I hope you can find a good therapist to help you work through these feelings and can use this event as a catalyst for your own healing. Please don't ever downplay what happened to you as a child. YOU ARE A GOOD AND WORTHWHILE HUMAN BEING WHO DESERVES LOVE.

It is easy to blame yourself. You are stronger than that. Look after yourself foremost. If you don’t look after yourself you can’t be expected to be able to help others.

I have so many things I want to say to you about all of this but mainly I just want to wrap you up in a big hug.

It is 100% normal to have conflicting feelings about your mum when you've had the childhood and life that you have had. Really, totally completely normal. All of your feelings are valid and are allowed. That is healthy. Even the ones that those of us looking in from the outside can see are based on beliefs that we think are untrue, and terribly unkind against yourself. You weren't a shit daughter to your mum. I don't think that you were a demanding child - but you are allowed to feel all of these feelings and to process it all properly. That is normal, that is healthy.

On the subject of her medical treatment before her death: It sounds like she made healthcare choices for herself. We are all allowed to do that, even including choices that by accident or by informed choice lead to a shorter life than other choices may have led to. It sounds like you did things brilliantly - worked through the options with her, helped her to make a choice and tried to guide her without taking over. Those are wonderfully loving actions. It would have been worse to have forced her to go to a hospital that she didn't want to go to, and there is no guarantee that the outcome would have been better; it may have been worse. Quality of life is not measured by quantity.

I'm glad you have said you will get some therapy, I think there's a lot for you to unpack and that having a supportive therapist to do that with will really help you. I'm glad it's helping to talk it through on here, too. xxx

@howcaniknow When you say 'I think she always felt I was too pushy and demanding and put my own wants and needs first.' I would suspect that you have been the victim of a narcissistic parent.

From painful, personal experience, I'm sure that rather than disappointing her in any way, you performed exactly the role that she wanted of you. Controlling parents often manipulate others to the grave and beyond.

By all means grieve for her, but I don't think that you have anything to feel guilty for. Be kind to yourself.

I hope this doesn't sound too bizarre but a part of you may even (totally unconciously) have wanted to inflict pain on her in retaliation for the intense pain she caused you, and this may be why you are feeling guilty now, as if your feelings may have somehow caused your mother's death.

I have questioned myself almost obsessively over this, trying to search out in case I unconsciously acted from a place of revenge or badness or some other horrific motivation, and I honestly don't think so.

But I suppose if it was unconscious I wouldn't know so I would say that wouldn't I? Hence, the uncertainty about something being lacking in me.

I genuinely believe I was trying to operate really carefully in a way that wouldn't alienate my mum. The bit that makes me wonder if it's my fault is more that I was too hesitant in fear of provoking that alienation. So I prioritised my need to not be cut off from her.

Whereas, if I'd pushed ahead maybe I could have convinced her, even if she was fucking angry at me and never spoke to me again...

But, as many people on this thread have said, they were her choices to make. It wasn't really my responsibility to push and push and push. I do know that in a way, it's just hard.

Of course you're not a shit daughter, why shouldn't you put yourself first? She never put you first when you needed her to!

And you are not childish, pathetic, talking nonsense....don't downplay what she did to you and the way she rejected you.That is an incredibly emotionally damaging and cruel way to treat a child.Do you know why your siblings were allowed to be with her and you weren't?

It sounds like you are still carrying alot of guilt and have low self worth if you are blaming yourself so much and dismissing the difficult feelings you are more than entitled to have.

I'm so sorry you went through what you did, my heart goes out to 'little you' 😔❤️

"But a big part of this was never, ever arguing with my mum or pressing my opinion on her - I think she always felt I was too pushy and demanding and put my own wants and needs first. I reckon I was guilty of that for years as was demanding, always needing support. I am 100% aware that I was a shit person in that respect."

Op, I hope this does not come off as disrespectful to your mother and I obviously am just going on what you have said here, but It might be useful to look at narcissistic personality disorder and see if anything resonates with you there about your mum and how that might have affected your self esteem.

Hi Op
You had a difficult childhood, seeing your siblings being able to be much more part of your mother's life,
You were just on the other hand had to fit in around your mother's needs when she felt up to this, even so, it was on a regular basis,
so you had whatever was left of your mother's time and energy after her looking after your siblings,

No wonder you craved your mother's attention ect,
as you had a real limit/ how much precious time you could spend with her,

It's quite Common and understandable/and natural you feel some regret,
It is what it is, you did your best under extremely trying circumstances,
You were there for her when she really needed it, matters most , and she knew that,
You had some good times with your mother,
Don't beat yourself up about it,

Nobody is perfect
You were and allways by sounds of it were good enough
All children/teenagers ect go through times when they can be demanding, it's part of just growing up,
The issue was you were with such low self esteem cause your mother seemed to not have enough time for you, whilst you were growing up,
Plus you were not allowed to be your own person with your own opinions ect with your mother,
You allways had to put your emotional needs to one side/or back burner your emotional needs in favour of pleasing your mother's,

This is obviously not healthy,for you constantly walking on egg shells, Wary of not trying to stress your mother, put pressure on her in any way,
Which in reality, you were probably just being a normal child, who was just reflecting the unstability/maybe Chaos, of your stage of life at that time
It sounds like could have had sever mental health issues
Basically you had to grow up far too fast,
You couldn't rely on your mother looking out for you, being there for you,

Essentially, having a mother like your type of mother was like to you /, or primary care figure constantly blowing hot and cold, you never know where you are emotionally with someone like that,

Making you feel out of balanced, not knowing of feeling sense of security
It sounds like it was more like a friendship, like you would have at school,
than a mother and daughter relantship,

It sounds like to me, it was type of relationship in which you were there, expected to be fun company, but not allowed to have a range of emotions,
Like weirdly she expected to be like one dimensional like a robot 🤖,
Where as she was allowed to have a range of feelings,
Your mother sounds like she quite selfish and very Needy childlike and couldn't handle being a grown up, expections,

Did she have you when she was very young such as a teenager or very early twenties ?

Putting your own disability needs first IS the healthy thing to do. Always. You weren't the only person who could have helped your mum - your siblings could have done so (and maybe did, to a greater or lesser extent) too. If they didn't step up, that's not your fault or responsibility. You were and continue to be primarily responsible for yourself - that much is true for you as well as for your mum, and everybody else.

Strangely enough I was thinking 🤔 Narastistic type of person your mother sounds she could have been

Oops sorry Op
I ment to say your mother sounds like she expected you weirdly to be like a one dimensional Robort,
Only there to cater primarily to her needs essential to the detrimental nature of your own emotional needs Op,

Does that make any sense to you Op?

I would suspect that you have been the victim of a narcissistic parent

She really wasn't a narcissist. I can understand why you might say something like that, but she was almost like the opposite of a narcissist. She had no behaviours seeking validation or needing narcissistic supply from anyone, she was just quietly self assured and self contained, and a dedicated wife and mother (to siblings) who put their needs first.

I'm not sure exactly what the issues were, but she wasn't a narcissist. She once wondered if I was though, when I was in my twenties and very depressed and unwell. However it wasn't mentioned again. Nobody else has ever suggested that. But maybe I am, because I wouldn't know if I was?

It's actually helpful as I said earlier in the thread - even writing this post makes me realise this is why it's easy to feel like the problematic person, because my mum and her nuclear family were all fine and happy with everything in the whole dynamic and the only one who wasn't was me.

Oops I ment to say it sounds like your mother had sever mental health disorder too in the mix
Aswell what I suspect strongly Narastistic personality disorder

She had zero mental health issues. She could not understand my depression when I was depressed as a young adult.

When someone dies it is usual, IME, to go back over our whole relationship and ask ourself what could have been different. You are looking back with hindsight, but all you could do at the time was your best - which it sounds like you did. Your mother was an adult who made many choices in her life. She made choices about her care to the end of her life s well. Unless she was incapable in some way, you are not responsible for those choices. You are beating yourself up for things outside your control, when it actually sounds like you had worked very hard on yourself. Please know you are not at fault and did nothing wrong.

How did your siblings respond to her illness? Presumably they didn't push her towards hospital treatment etc either? Did you feel like it was just your responsibility?

Because of my disability and my professional background I have more experience navigating doctors and healthcare systems etc. That's why it was more my responsibility.

Siblings are younger and have no experience.

You didn’t push her because you knew, from experience, she would see you pushing as you being demanding and selfish and wanting her to do things your way - which she resisted.

She was her own woman, right up to the end. She made her own decisions. It was her life and she did what she wanted.

You didn’t let her down. You aren’t lacking.

Your grief at your loss may be hard to bear, but it doesn’t make you guilty.

You have a really complicated past that you’ve made peace with to some extent. But I think your feelings around this reveal that you’ve glossed over it rather than really digging in and coming to terms with it. Please seek some counseling to help you think about your past in a healthier way and deal with your current grief too.

Its ok to have complicated feeling about relationships, especially where mother-daughter relationships are concerned, and yours isnt a straightforward one. Its not your fault that she died. It wasnt your place to push her to move hospitals, its her decisions which you just have to respect.
Sending hugs.

"She had zero mental health issues. She could not understand my depression when I was depressed as a young adult."

But is that lacking of understanding by her in itself a mental health issue? Did she ever make any connection between you being treated differently than your siblings by her and your subsequent depression? You sound like you may have been the scapegoat for the family?

But I think your feelings around this reveal that you’ve glossed over it rather than really digging in and coming to terms with it

I really did dig in my 20s. I became very depressed. Then I felt I'd processed things somewhat and had some healthy growth, and rebuilt myself, including a different relationship with my mum.

Am I just going to endlessly circle back to feeling this way, even after i think I've moved on?