Was it my fault she died?

[howcaniknow]

I really love my mum. However I did not grow up with her, I grew up with my grandparents (saw my mum every week) and we did not have a conventional mother daughter relationship as a result. There was pain and hurt there when I was a young adult at times, although we had loads of fun together too.

She preferred to have firm boundaries around me, I think. I was always welcome for visits but her house wasn't my home. I am ashamed of this because it's childish and pathetic but I craved being 100% fully wanted by her and felt such deep shame that she didn't want me living with her. My siblings lived with her and it's like a blank space in my mind that can't work out why I was not "worth it" on the same level as they were.

I know this is just nonsense obviously as an adult and don't believe that has anything to do with my worth - but sometimes it still hits me over the head and I just feel so ashamed and distressed. It embarrasses me.

We developed a great relationship later on. However, by this time I had grown up and learned how to enjoy the relationship for all the good things it was, and let go of the rest.

But a big part of this was never, ever arguing with my mum or pressing my opinion on her - I think she always felt I was too pushy and demanding and put my own wants and needs first. I reckon I was guilty of that for years as was demanding, always needing support. I am 100% aware that I was a shit person in that respect.

When she got sick she was very appreciative of my support which I was glad to do, but I was always too afraid to argue with her and push her. She was very keen to explore all options which we did together and did a virtual appointment with a very good doctor, but I didn't push her to move to a bigger hospital.

Maybe if I had REALLY pushed her, she would have gone and even if she had stopped talking to me, she might still be alive?

The other thing is maybe I should have been pushier about going to her town and actually going with her to appointments but again I was afraid. There was nowhere for me to stay and due to my own disability I can't drive.

But really - I prioritised my own disability and my own health. Having no access to my own doctors and things I need to manage my own health makes my own disability worse so I just put myself first. Again, if I had navigated things in a better way, would she possibly still be alive?

Am I just a shit daughter?

"You know, I'm beginning to wonder if her determinedly not having any mental health issues, was actually a defence against confronting some painful stuff?"

Yes, this. It sound like she coped with what must have been extremely difficult emotions for her through denial. The problem of course with that is that the feelings don't just disappear, they have to go somewhere, and it sounds like a lot has been projected on to you. That is what I meant about you being 'the scapegoat' i.e. the one who has to pick up the feelings and emotions in a family or in a relationshp where the other cannot or does not want to own those feelings themselves. I imagine she will have felt a lot of shame that she had a child out of wedlock (if that was frowned on by the culture in your family which it seems to have been) and also rejection by your father. She also effectively had to separate from you which must have been extremely painful for her. She may, despite aslo feeling love and gratitude towards her parents, have had all sorts of feelings of envy and possibly hatred towards her parents who presumably influenced her decision for you to live with them. If those intensely painful and conflicting feelings were not acknowledged or processed by her she may have found it difficult to have a properly nurturing relationship with you, which seems to have been what has occurred.

I just used the phrase "properly nurturing relationship with you" and realised it might sound too dismissive. It sounds like she was capable of showing you a lot of love but that at some level you have experienced it as conditional on you behaving a certain way. It's always been a 'half-way house' for you.

OP, please forgive me if I am totally off the mark with this stuff. Obviously you know much better what was going on and I am not a therapist! I really hope you can find one who can help support you in the way you deserve.

I read the thread last night but couldn't reply. So, I'm late. But here goes...

OP, you are not to blame, at all, ever for the death of your mother. You knew her, you reacted to the situation the way you had learned to react, from your relationship with her. Her death wasn't down to you, the responsibility for how and when she died did not and does not lie with you.

Similarly, you are not responsible for the failings in the relationship between you. I lived with my daughter all through, but still got it wrong. People are who they are, damaged, challenged, different from each other and can't always be the mothers their children need them to be.

Back in the day, sometimes if a very young woman (or a woman with problems, eg drink, drugs, poor mental health) got pregnant, her parents would take on the child as their own. If the young woman later found a husband and started a family, the first child stayed with the grandparents. That's how it was often done in my (white, working class, UK) culture, and how it seems to have happened in your case, though as you refer to 'our culture' you and I are probably from different backgrounds. It wasn't unusual, outrageous or uncaring or a rejection, though it did sometimes lead to family arguments when young mothers weren't happy with the way grandparents were doing things, or the other way around.

Do get therapy. Loads of it. Eventually, it works. Mine took over ten years.

Here is some woo stuff in case you are into that. It came to mind when I was reading your thread last night and is the main reason I'm posting...

All around the world there are older women. Crones, hags, grandmothers, wise-women, witches, non-witches, nuns, all sorts of women. We've seen a lot, done a lot, endured and survived a lot. Our energy is strong. Nothing shocks us. We have much love to give, without entanglements, without past or future, without explanations or justifications. Tap into the love and strength of grandmothers, it's everywhere, all around you. They can hold you in their love and strength until you have healed enough, however long that takes.

Love this ❤️❤️ wise words

Unhelpful

@howcaniknow Perhaps you living with your grandparents was the best thing for you as a baby. Your mum may have been unable to cope with a baby for numerous reasons. Later, when she was more able it felt unfair to move you from your settled home. It doesn't mean you weren't loved or wanted, you obviously were. Your upbringing was different from your siblings, although you spent time with everyone.
My parents were very young when they had me, practically children themselves. I know they loved me but I dreamed of living with my grandparents. Mostly for stability.
You were not a bad daughter, nor was your mother a bad parent. Simply different in ability and approach. You know you done all you could. I doubt your mum would have wanted you to neglect yourself.
💐

I voted YANBU just because you were not being unreasonable to put yourself first.

YABU (but for totally understandable reasons!) to think you could have prevented her passing. I am sorry for your loss xx

Absolutely not your fault, and of course you had to prioritise your own needs. Her rejection of you was also not your fault and all her. I’m glad you had grandparents willing to step in and hopefully made you happy. Perhaps you should talk this all through with a counsellor, then maybe you’ll be able to move forward with your life knowing you did nothing wrong, and deserved more from her.

I don't know why she wasn't a mother to you but not being with your mother through your childhood is the fault of your mother. Definitely you have nothing to blame yourself for. Your mother appeared to be a mother only by giving birth to you. An absent mother is not a real mother. Again if it was your mother's choice to disengage with a child then that adult was and is at fault

I really really urge you to get good therapy for this.

I was brought up from 7 by my grandparents. Different reasons to you, my parents were neglectful and abusive, but something that I was told when I was in therapy probably is similar.

When your parent dies and they weren’t a standard/traditional/“normal” parent you can end up grieving twice over.

You lose the person they were and everything that that brings with it.

However, you also lose the person that little girl inside you still wishes they could be/could have been. The parent that one day they suddenly wanted to be, or could be. The one that it felt like everyone else had.

You’re also navigating the difficulty of placing your relationship with her. You were mother and daughter, but also not. You were brought up by her parents, but you weren’t her sibling.

it’s not easy. And there is likely a lot to unpick. And lots it will likely fall into “was I good enough?”

Nothing is your fault. You are not to blame. You were reacting how you were taught to react. You are unwell yourself. I hope you got the empathy that you deserved. Please listen to 'When the body says no ' by Gabor Matte on YouTube. It will help you to understand a lot. I wish you peace.

I’m horrified reading this. None of us can really know the reasons why your mum brought up your siblings but Gran brought you up. It could have been a multitude of reasons from you being the result of an abusive relationship to un-affordability to mental health problems, we cannot possibly know.

What I do see from your posts is that she seems to have held the cards, you haven’t done anything wrong OP and yet you’re left with the guilt of never being good enough.

you ARE good enough, it’s not you’re fault, I’m sorry for you’re loss, but you’re now free from this obligation and fear and guilt that you you need to try harder for approval.

please get some good therapy.

This is so not the truth of it all.

I'd say you haven't even scraped the tip of the iceberg on this one.

Can I ask you is there a big age gap between you and your siblings? Do you resemble your siblings in appearance/hair colouring/eye colour? Do you look like both of your parents? I'm curious as to why your siblings were allowed to stay in the family home and you were dispatched to your grandparents home.

I'd like to say that you are 100% not responsible for your late mother's health and wellbeing. She was responsible for that.

I do think you need to unpick the relationship you had with your mother and your father and find out whether they had had any discussions about children (e.g. how many and when). Why were you sent to be brought up by your grandparents? You deserve an explanation if nothing else for why that happened. Based on that, you can try to square off why you felt more like a guest in a house that you should have felt like family in.

You poor thing. Your whole family did a complete number on you didn't they?

Oh hun, it's 100% not your fault. And it's not childish to feel rejection from a parent no matter what age you are.

Whatever your mother's reasons were for keeping you living with your grandparents while living elsewhere with your siblings, she clearly loved you. She did what she needed to do and it was no fault of yours.

I think you need some long term talking therapy in order to unravel all of these complex feelings.

You are not responsible for your mother. Even if she had been an excellent parent, you would still not have been responsible for her dragging her through the medical system at the expense of your own mental and physical health.

the reason you are having so much trouble recognizing this is likely because she wasn’t an excellent parent. A good mother would not have tried to claim the role while preventing you from forming a true parental bond with someone else. She could have allowed someone to adopt you, even your grandparents could have become your parents, but instead she tried to keep claim to that title without doing the work.

those of us with messed up parent relationships probably never really get over them, but you can make progress to set them aside. You can recognize that the responsibility lies with the parent and that what you can control is how you continue to react. When you feel those complicated emotions clawing their way back in, you have to remind yourself that if you let these feelings rule your life, you are letting their poor parenting win. You can acknowledge that your parent wasn’t a monster and that your parent was a flawed human being who did try their best, while also accepting that it was their job to do better, not yours.

Thank you for all the helpful and wise replies, it is helpful to discuss. My goal for this weekend is to shortlist therapists to contact and see if I can arrange something soon.

I feel I should most likely find a therapist who doesn't specialise in grief counselling, as there's more to it than bereavement, but then I realised grief counsellers probably see it all? Like they are used to complex grief too?

So maybe it's about finding someone very experienced in either grief or complicated child-parent dynamics.

Someone to help you unpick the complex dynamic first will likely help you unpick the grief side

Not being fully wanted in itself is a failure on her part, even if you can’t see it. My heart breaks for you and how scared you have been to say what you think which is a fundamental part of a normal healthy relationship. None of this is your fault OP, she chose to prioritise the way she did in all parts of her life and I am 100% confident you couldn’t have done any better than be forgiving and supportive to the end. Sending big hugs; please don’t blame yourself for anything- sounds like you have been a brilliant daughter 💐

I do understand that my mum made some unhelpful choices and mistakes with regards to me, but I really love her and she was not a shit mother. It wasn't easy for her and it's just not that black and white.

I did feel loved. Just not prioritised. I mean maybe that's a bit precious anyway, because my grandmother did prioritise me, so perhaps it's a sign of a tendency towards greed or something that i wanted my mum to prioritise me as well.

A good mother would not have tried to claim the role while preventing you from forming a true parental bond with someone else. She could have allowed someone to adopt you, even your grandparents could have become your parents, but instead she tried to keep claim to that title without doing the work.

Fortunately no, she didn't stop me forming a parental bond with my grandmother. She was my main attachment figure, and is most likely the reason why I have a healthy loving relationship with my partner, and good solid friendships.

I understand your pain. Get some bereavement counselling. You have absolutely no reason to beat up on yourself. You have been the best daughter you could have been for her.

You are not a shit daughter. It is normal to want to be loved and prioritised by your mother.
I read somewhere that grief is harder to bear when there is some sort of unfinished business - words that needed to be said, or heard.
Do you think this is true in your case?
I hope you find the help that you need soon.

But your siblings didn’t have the same set up so it is a form of rejection. No full acceptance.
where were the siblings when she was ill?
it sounds like you were looking after herby yourself.

i Think you are being unfair to your self and agree with those who are suggesting you seek therapy to process your thoughts and feelings concerning your grief and feelings of guilt.
I feel sad to read you felt so different and not fully wanted growing up whilst acknowledge you felt loved too , such a confusing way to feel , also confusing to not feel you could be your true self with your mum risking being seen as opinionated. However I expect many readers have a similar experience with parents.
There is no best way to die and your mum must have made choices about her care on the basis of the information she had at the time. Retaining her autonomy perhaps was important to her and hopefully you can take comfort in that. Most of all her death was not your fault
take care .