Was it my fault she died?

[howcaniknow]

I really love my mum. However I did not grow up with her, I grew up with my grandparents (saw my mum every week) and we did not have a conventional mother daughter relationship as a result. There was pain and hurt there when I was a young adult at times, although we had loads of fun together too.

She preferred to have firm boundaries around me, I think. I was always welcome for visits but her house wasn't my home. I am ashamed of this because it's childish and pathetic but I craved being 100% fully wanted by her and felt such deep shame that she didn't want me living with her. My siblings lived with her and it's like a blank space in my mind that can't work out why I was not "worth it" on the same level as they were.

I know this is just nonsense obviously as an adult and don't believe that has anything to do with my worth - but sometimes it still hits me over the head and I just feel so ashamed and distressed. It embarrasses me.

We developed a great relationship later on. However, by this time I had grown up and learned how to enjoy the relationship for all the good things it was, and let go of the rest.

But a big part of this was never, ever arguing with my mum or pressing my opinion on her - I think she always felt I was too pushy and demanding and put my own wants and needs first. I reckon I was guilty of that for years as was demanding, always needing support. I am 100% aware that I was a shit person in that respect.

When she got sick she was very appreciative of my support which I was glad to do, but I was always too afraid to argue with her and push her. She was very keen to explore all options which we did together and did a virtual appointment with a very good doctor, but I didn't push her to move to a bigger hospital.

Maybe if I had REALLY pushed her, she would have gone and even if she had stopped talking to me, she might still be alive?

The other thing is maybe I should have been pushier about going to her town and actually going with her to appointments but again I was afraid. There was nowhere for me to stay and due to my own disability I can't drive.

But really - I prioritised my own disability and my own health. Having no access to my own doctors and things I need to manage my own health makes my own disability worse so I just put myself first. Again, if I had navigated things in a better way, would she possibly still be alive?

Am I just a shit daughter?

I think you need to be kinder and more forgiving to yourself.
Your wants needs and feelings are valid, please don't dismiss your feelings in a situation that was not of your making. You sound like your putting yourself last on a list of importance and that's being unkind to yourself. Start being nicer to yourself you sound lovely.

Sounds like your mum was courageous and your grandparents were great. It’s still ok to feel conflicted.

Yes, that was sort of it.

Much later, she told me her and my grandmother argued because she wanted to bring me to live with her but my grandmother wouldn't let her take me as I was doing so well at my school.

So she moved away, because she said she found her own mother suffocating.

My grandmother was amazing and I was really, really bonded with her and I loved her so much, I wouldn't have wanted to leave her anyway so I feel like I'm being unfair to my mum in a way?

It is all such a mess of thoughts.

OP, I would really really strongly recommend speaking to a professional therapist about all this. It sounds like you have a lot of unresolved issues around your mum and upbringing that people on mumsnet are not going to be able to help you with. Having had a bit of therapy myself recently for the first time ever, I can't tell you how much it has helped.
Invest in yourself and your future and talk this out with a professional. For what it's worth, in my non-expert opinion, in answer to your question, you are absolutely 100% not a shit daughter. You sound like a very caring and thoughtful person.

My grandmother is dead now but she was the only one who seemed to validate any feelings of upset I had around my parents.

When i was a teenager and beginning to feel upset about stuff, she sometimes would say if maybe she had done the wrong thing by not insisting my mum and I got a flat together on our own when she had me.

It is all such a mess of thoughts
Yes, and this is why you really do need therapy to be able to start processing what has happened.

I agree, a lot of your thoughts directly contradict each other as well OP. You say one thing in one post and another in a different one.

Shame and guilt you describe here are classic byproducts of not being loved unconditionally as a child OP. Which was your right as her child.
She was young and conflicted. Felt guilt and shame herself maybe. But that's not your fault.
Your abrasiveness as a teen and young adult is understandable. You have a right to be angry and disappointed in the way you were treated.

@howcaniknow my DP’s mum was 18 and she never abandoned her son. Your grandmother sounds amazing. Like a true mother. If your grandmother said she didn’t want you to leave because you were doing well in school then that means your mum gave up parenting duties for many years.

I think your mum did what she thought was right. Had I been in her position I think I would have thought that putting you into the care of my lovely parents in their stable home was the best thing for you. I just may not have had her courage.
I don't want to speculate about a woman I don't know (I think the critical remarks about your mum are not fair, and not helpful to you. You knew her, we did not) but I will say that it's not unusual for women who decide they can't have their child with them to erect boundaries, for their own protection from the hurt. Its not rejection its a way to cope.
The (needless) guilt you're feeling is actually very common amongst the bereaved. I had a conventional relationship with my mum, but it didn't stop me thinking I was to blame for something related to her death. I wasn't of course, but its something our minds tend to fixate on while we make sense of our loss.

OP, I would really really strongly recommend speaking to a professional therapist about all this. It sounds like you have a lot of unresolved issues around your mum and upbringing that people on mumsnet are not going to be able to help you with.

Yes i plan on getting therapy. But people on mumsnet are actually helping, because it's forcing me to think of how to put some of this stuff into words, if you see what I mean?

Like instead of it being a straightforward issue about me thinking it was my fault she died...it's more complex than that and hard to know where to start.

So thrashing some of it out here is making me realise some of the history is important, instead of just dismissing that.

I had planned to get a grief therapist, but now I wonder if a different kind of therapist might be more suitable for example.

I couldn't work out which way to vote (I said yanbu but now I think that's wrong?) Anyway I absolutely think it's not your fault. You've had to deal with a very difficult parental relationship and I think it's amazing that you were able to care for your mum when she was ill.

OP, I wasn’t sure whether to vote yabu or yanbu — yabu to blame yourself, but yanbu to mind your own health while caring for DM.

You have been a very kind and forgiving daughter. You’ve tried to suppress your sadness, but your mother’s behaviour hurt you a lot and you’d be superhuman if you could just ignore it.

You sound like a lovely person, OP. I hope you can work through your sadness and enjoy the rest of your life. xx

OP, my dear, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry for the relationship you wanted with your mother and didn't have.

It's not your fault, it's not your mother's fault. 'fault' isn't really the thing, here. What is here is hurt, and love, and grief and grieving.

Grieving is a verb. Take your time. Be extra gentle with yourself. Yes, find a good, trusted therapist or friend to talk about with it. Maybe writing a journal would help?

Sending you all my best.

I agree with a PP that the boundaries she put up were most likely to protect herself from her own feelings about the situation. I don’t know what she felt about the situation, it sounds like she tried to make the best decision for you however it’s still likely she felt guilty or even shame about the decision. These are powerful feelings. Feelings that most people will do anything not to confront.
Now even though as an adult you can easily see the predicament she was in, why she made that choice and had loving grandparents etc you still are affected by your childhood. As a child you didn’t understand why you didn’t live with her and it naturally shaped so much about you, your personality and relationships as an adult.
You are definitely not a shit daughter. It sounds like talking to someone about your grief and your childhood.

These thoughts are a normal part of grieving; you have done nothing wrong and it's your mind torturing you, because of the grief. Losing a parent when you had a complicated relationship is very difficult: you grieve for the parent you wish you had, as well as the one you really had.

If you can access it, counselling can really help.

OP it sounds like your mum had a difficult time when you were born and ended up in a situation that wasn’t one she would have chosen for herself, or you. The fact you maintained a strong family bond despite this is important however I cannot stress enough that YOU were the innocent party in all of it.
Whether of her own design or not, your mother bears the responsibility for how your relationship was shaped, along with your grandparents. You did not in any way shape or form let your mother down. I hope you can find a great therapist who can help you unpack all of this and see that you are not lacking, or undeserving or any of the negative words you’ve used about yourself.

Your relationship with your mother was clearly complicated. She was just a child when she had you so I can empathise with why she felt it was best for you to be brought up by your grandmother. However, it sounds like since then she may have had opportunities to make it up to you and unfortunately didn’t do that.
I couldn’t possibly say whether decisions that were made were right or wrong for the situation, but I can categorically tell you that it was not your fault that you didn’t live with your Mum or that she died. You need to treat yourself with some of the kindness and forgiveness that you have shown your mother. She was lucky to have you.

I actually think you're much more loved than you give yourself credit for,
@howcaniknow.

Your mum loved you enough to carry on her pregnancy in difficult circumstances. Your grandparents were amazingly supportive when I imagine some of their peers would have behaved very differently.

Your mum must have thought she was doing her best by your to leave you with your grandparents, and your grandma obviously didn't want to let you go to live with your mum because she loved you, and wanted to support your education. That must have been tough for your mum too.

FWIW I think they made mistakes, but they came from a place of love. Your mum probably carried a weight of guilt, and your father was just a waste of space who took no responsibility.

I understand how it must have all felt as rejection - apart from your so-called father - I'm not sure that was what it was meant to be? I think if you could learn to focus on the positives of your relationship with your mum, on the good times, it would help you to come to terms with your loss?

Everyone here is just speculating. My heart does go out to you though. Please, please don't ever think you have any responsibility for your mum's passing - you so don't. You must be a lovely, forgiving person to have built up the relationship you did with your mum. Definitely therapy is the way to go, to make sense of the whole situation.

Are you close to any of your siblings? I hope you have support from then. Very best wishes xx

No, you are not to blame at all. Your mum was an adult who was responsible for her own health. I wonder if you took on the "adult role" in the relationship, and it sounds like from a very early age had to grow up prematurely and take on so much on little shoulders.
I wonder if speaking to someone would help. I think there is a lot to unpick here and to help to lift that heavy burden you have been carrying.

OP my dad died when I was in my early thirties after a long battle with dementia. It is so natural to question your decisions around a parental death and, in time, you will come to allow a space to accept that you can never know the answer and that is ok and unavoidable. I held a lot of sadness and (white hot) anger for about a year until it passed. I’m sure therapy would have helped me but honestly I no longer carry it with me. You did nothing wrong. Your mother
would have wanted her wishes taken into account and in doing that you honoured her, as an adult able to make her own decisions. Sometimes this is the hardest part to live with.

so the other issues with your mother aside, your questions around her death are natural and nothing to be ashamed of.

On the questions around the relationship with your mother - lots of pp have honed in on this. Clearly it was very complex and, in time, you may come to see it from different perspectives. My understanding of my parents has changed throughout life. You can accept that they did good and bad things and that you loved them even though they may have treated you poorly at times.

my comfort for your loss xx

No OP, you are not a shit daughter.

I hope you can have some therapy. My DH was left with his grandmother because she said “oh, he’s so lovely” and his mother said “if you think he’s lovely you can have him” and then walked away. He’s never recovered.

I didn't push her to move to a bigger hospital.

Maybe if I had REALLY pushed her, she would have gone and even if she had stopped talking to me, she might still be alive?

My grandmother had a comfortable death in a small local hospital.

My grandfather had an awful death, where they were still doing seemingly random interventions including enemas and other uncomfortable things when I could see he was dying.

The hospital that treated my grandfather so poorly also treated a friend’s mother. She had much closer contact than I did and she said her mum’s treatment was utterly chaotic and that several teams were involved and none of them could sign off on something if it might affect something one of the other teams was dealing with. My friend had relevant experience as well, so understood only too well what she was seeing.

You don’t say what was wrong with your mum, but I wanted to challenge the idea that it’s inevitable that treatment in a big hospital necessarily leads to a better outcome.

There are always “what ifs” when anyone dies, but it sounds like this is more about your lack of closure than that you did anything that made things worse. And it sounds like you loved her very much, in spite of the difficult circumstances. I wonder whether this is especially difficult for you as there is now no chance to “fix” the past, while it might have seemed possible (even if that wasn’t realistic) when she was still with you?

Anyway, look after yourself. You really haven’t done anything wrong and I hope you can come to see that and find some peace.

Oh @howcaniknow this is so, so sad. This isn't the truth of it at all. Please seek some therapy in order to unpick how your guilt over your mothers death/your relationship is all tied up in having to think about your whole relationship all wrong in order to cope with it. My heart goes out to you.

You did not let your mum down. I would be so proud and grateful to any child of mine who could stand with my in the face of a difficult illness. That is a hard thing to do.

I hope you seek therapy, OP, you deserve to make peace with all aspects of your relationship with your mother, at all your ages and stages.