Borrowed money from my mum

[Finallyoutofthewoods]

I know this thread will potentially get a lot of negative comments - please be kind

About 5 years ago I was in the worst financial position I had ever been in. Single parent, trying desperately to take on a mortgage alone after a family breakdown, in massive debt as I ended up saddled with the debt from my marriage as it had all been put in my name - anything we had done to our house, holidays, kids stuff, the lot had all gone in my name as my ex had a dreadful credit rating

My mum on the other hand is extremely financially well off - her house paid for in cash, she paid for her brand new car in cash, she receives the equivalent of a £60k salary in a private pension - my late fathers pension - as well as full state pension. My mum has not worked since she was in her early 20’s - I know Dad paid off her NI contributions so she would get full state pension. She has decent savings and literally doesn’t and never has had to worry about money. She spends money like it’s water though - she uses my email address for any large purchases she makes and for example she spent £8k on blinds for a really small conservatory a few months ago. The conservatory literally fits 2 small chairs and a cafe table in it, so why the blinds were £8k is beyond me.

5 years ago I asked if I could borrow £10k off her in an attempt to clear some of the debt so I would be able to cover the mortgage application to keep our family home. She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back

As it is, I ended up having to sell the property at a massive loss as I was just short on the mortgage amount and ended up taking on a further £12k credit card and loan debt to cover the mortgage shortfall, solicitors and estate agents fees - essentially wiping out the £10k that she had given me to help out.

I moved into a rented property and had around a total of £25k of credit card debt plus a £5k loan I had to take out to pay the mortgage shortfall off. Really struggled - had to feed my kids from a food bank. Lived an utterly miserable life truth be told and I honestly at my low points struggled to soldier on, especially through covid when I was furloughed and bringing in every less. She knew how low I was and at most, would pass me the odd £20 here and there.

I turned my life around 2 years ago through hard work. My debts are in a completely different place now - I’ve got £2k left on a credit card and my car - which I bought with a loan last year as had to have a decent ish car for work (sales job, car allowance and I cover around 20k miles+ per annum) I live with my new partner in his mortgaged house and pay towards that, we are hoping to buy a house together at some point but wont be doing until I actually have some savings to be able to pay towards the deposit

Anyway, I happened to mention to my mum that my debts were almost cleared and I could tell what she was thinking - that it was time to start paying the £10k back to her

Now I do appreciate that I did borrow this from her in good faith and she was so kind to help me out but Im finally at a stage where I can start to do things with my kids too as well as start a savings account. It’s like our lives have been on hold for over 5 years and she knows how much I’ve struggled. So for me to pay her back at the rate that I had been trying to clear my debts, it would mean that our lives are on hold for quite a bit longer

I have managed to clear my debts purely through commission I receive through my sales job - so it’s not guaranteed each month either. I’ve just worked hard and been lucky

I have considered asking if the debt could be factored into her will - so whatever the amount is, that my sibling would receive £10k more than me. Ive also considered proposing paying her back at a rate of £100 per month - equally I do feel like £100 is a drop in the ocean for her, she literally does not need it. I’m certainly not going to ignore the fact that the debt is there but I know she’s going to ask soon. What would you do?

@marykay1 @cloudsandream Can you put yourselves in her Mum's position?

ie- you have an income of £70Kpa and no mortgage.
You are in your late 60s or 70s.

You will never get through your money unless you spend like wildfire every year , and yet you are happy to take £10K from your DD who is trying to secure a house deposit with her new partner.

If I were her mum I'd take pleasure in being able to help my DD.

You are nowhere near to being debt free as you still owe £10k. Pay your mom back and then celebrate being debt free and only then think about your new life.

I would help my daughter too… if I felt she’d learned any lessons. Instead, OP has left and abusive relationship and basically moved straight in with a new guy and seems financially dependent on him.

The OP’s mum probably wishes OP would start putting her children first and make smarter decisions.

It may very well be that your mother is waiting for you to address it before writing it off or the likes.

Thats what I did with a close relative. As soon as they showed they had actually thought about paying me back I told them to forget it and consider it paid. However, I didn’t do it before then because I wanted to be sure they had actually thought about it and weren’t just assuming they could be repeatedly bailed out.

You need to speak to her. She hasn’t even asked for it back.
I think the will approach is a bad idea personally. Do not underestimate how much money can be eaten away if your mother needs care at some point.

Look if your mum wanted to write off the debt she would have done so already. The reality is that no one really knows another’s full financial circumstances and therefore you cannot base not paying your mum back on the assumption she doesn’t need the money. She may well have fears about the future herself, knowing that she will not have any financial support from her children if her situation gets more difficult. Your mum has already been generous by offering you this money, interest free with an open ended “pay it back when you can”. It would be really shitty of you to now try to wriggle out of repaying her on the basis that she bought some new blinds and isn’t living on the poverty line.

You need to have a proper chat with her and explain how grateful you have been for her help and now the high interest debts have nearly been repaid you can focus on paying back her loan. Ask her how she’d rather you did it - small amounts each month into her account or a more substantial amount you get from bonuses at work every so often. You can be clear that trying to clear the other debts has really been difficult and if she was able to give you a little leeway in terms of lower monthly repayments that would really help but you need to show you fully intend to repay her. She may surprise you by agreeing to write it off anyway.

Can you just have a proper grown up chat about it?
It sounds like you have done brilliantly to get where you are. Can you open up to her about where you are?

Only on Mumsnet would an older (of course) woman be considered a shit for lending someone £10K and wanting it back. In fact not even mentioning it until the OP did

This. You agreed you would pay it back so pay it. It's not your money.

I have considered asking if the debt could be factored into her will - so whatever the amount is, that my sibling would receive £10k more than me.

It wouldn't be £10K - it would be whatever it is after adjustment for inflation and anything it would have earned up until her death.

Ive also considered proposing paying her back at a rate of £100 per month - equally I do feel like £100 is a drop in the ocean for her, she literally does not need it.

I've had family make similar claims about me, OP. It wasn't true, but they were justifying going back on the arrangement to themselves and to others. It's partly why I haven't been able to go on holiday, replace appliances, or have work done on my home for the last 20 years.

I don't lend people money now. No matter the stories people tell themselves, I can't afford to lose it.

You owe your mother 10k.
Have a grown up conversation with her and tell her your plans for the future.
Tell her you acknowledge the debt and really appreciate the help she gave you.
Ask her if it would be acceptable to set up a direct debt (for an amount you are comfortable with, which will let you continue to save, and is acceptable to her) to start repaying it on a monthly basis.
This way she has the opportunity, if she wishes, to write off the debt... she can see how far you have come and that you are not sweeping the issue under the carpet. She can see you have plans for the future with your partner while not forgetting how she helped you jn the past.
This is the adult and dignified way to behave.

Your mum sounds mean and narcissistic. She has had it very easy in life and probably doesn’t understand what it’s like to really struggle. £20 here and there to super her destitute daughter and grandchildren vs 8K on blinds for a tiny conservatory says it all really.

What would your late father want? Maybe he would have wanted to support you too via his pension?

You have had a bumpy ride on here! Money is such an emotional subject and in family situations can look like a barometer of who is loved and appreciated more.

Personally if everything is as you say, I think your mum sounds like a pretty tough cookie and that underneath it all, you are hurt and disappointed that she hasn't offered you more unconditional support. So why carry on being beholden to her?

Of course as you know, it's her money and it was a loan so you have an obligation to pay it back. Take the high ground and free yourself. Be proactive - go to your mum with a repayment plan that maybe leaves you a little jam on your bread and butter but aim to get this paid off as quickly as you possibly can. Then you are no longer beholden to her or to anyone, you can hold your head high and say you cleared every penny by yourself and can examine a little more clearly what sort of dynamics play out in your relationship with your mum and whether you are really happy to put up with them.

The will arrangement will just make things messy and could come back to bite you.

If you were my daughter I would have helped you more. But there's nowt as queer as folk.

Oh stop being so silly.

Do you have any concept of love? Parental love?

The Mum has £70Kpa! Double the median income, no mortgage, only herself to feed and clothe.

It is a tiny fraction of her wealth but she's not willing to right off the loan?

Only on MN do we see such crappy responses.

Oh my goodness, if I were that mum, I’d write it off and be grateful I was able to help my daughter in need and still be comfortable. Mum has had it easy-basically her whole life has been paid for by her husband. IMO, morally, how could she see her daughter struggle like that and not say don’t worry about the money. My children have never been handed anything on a plate-support yes eg driving lessons, help with rent deposit etc. They are expected to provide for themselves. But if they were in a situation like this, no way would I be agreeing payment plans etc-just write it off.

Honestly, you can't win on this site sometimes. Give full background information, you get accused of being resentful and "painting a picture" of someone in a certain light to manipulate the answers. Give only the bare bones of the situation and add information as people ask questions, you get accused of drip feeding.

I must say I agree. My MIL is in a similar position like OPs mum - she hasn’t worked since she had kids over 50 years ago, was always looked after by her husband and is receiving a very comfortable pension. She’s fairly generous though 🙂

@CovertImage nope, I consider a wealthy person of any age and sex a shit for standing by and watching children eat from a food bank rather than dipping into their coffers 👍🏻

tight, miserable, mean behaviour. Appalling.

the ire on here should be saved for her, not the op.

@MarieRoseMarie Have you read the OP's posts? Clearly not!

She hasn't moved in straight away from one relationship with an abuser to her new partner.

She's cleared a huge amount of debt over a long period of time - 5 years ago this happened.

You mother’s finances are irrelevant to the fact that you owe her money. It was leant to you interest free with the view that it would be paid back when you got on your feet. It sounds like that day has come and you need to have the discussion about paying it back.

You have no idea as to what your mother’s finances will be further down the line. for example how much could be eaten up rapidly if she had to go into a care home, required private surgery etc. Please don’t have that conversation about knocking your debt off a possible future inheritance.

I think the most sensible option is for her to deduct it from your inheritance.

If she absolutely does not need it and having the extra 10k in her bank will never make any difference to her decisions in life (moving house, holidays etc), then it seems like any understanding parent in a very comfortable financial position would do that for you. You are clearly a very hard worker, you’ve had a tough time getting out of debt (which is really hard and well done for that) and I think why make you suffer for longer when you can finally start to feel abit more financially stable.

The other thing you could suggest is looking again at it in 5 years time. Perhaps you will be in an even stronger position then and could pay her back quicker than £100 a month.

Exactly.

Watching your daughter struggle when you have £70K pa, plus savings, plus very few outgoings, is appalling.

What her DF would want is irrelevant for obvious reasons. Had he wanted to help out, he should have done it in his lifetime and via his will.

Just to add to my post, I also cant believe you went to a food bank with a parent in a very comfortable financial position. Mine would be on the door with a weekly shop if they thought for a second we were struggling to buy food (they are in a comfortable financial position). Did she know you were using the food bank?

And why would you automatically assume that I’ve moved in with a man with money and I’m at his cash?! 😂Not took out any loans or indeed used my credit card for the last 2 years now since starting paying it all off. The ONLY reason I have managed to pay debts back is because I’ve changed jobs and worked hard - DP doesn’t support me financially at all.