Borrowed money from my mum

[Finallyoutofthewoods]

I know this thread will potentially get a lot of negative comments - please be kind

About 5 years ago I was in the worst financial position I had ever been in. Single parent, trying desperately to take on a mortgage alone after a family breakdown, in massive debt as I ended up saddled with the debt from my marriage as it had all been put in my name - anything we had done to our house, holidays, kids stuff, the lot had all gone in my name as my ex had a dreadful credit rating

My mum on the other hand is extremely financially well off - her house paid for in cash, she paid for her brand new car in cash, she receives the equivalent of a £60k salary in a private pension - my late fathers pension - as well as full state pension. My mum has not worked since she was in her early 20’s - I know Dad paid off her NI contributions so she would get full state pension. She has decent savings and literally doesn’t and never has had to worry about money. She spends money like it’s water though - she uses my email address for any large purchases she makes and for example she spent £8k on blinds for a really small conservatory a few months ago. The conservatory literally fits 2 small chairs and a cafe table in it, so why the blinds were £8k is beyond me.

5 years ago I asked if I could borrow £10k off her in an attempt to clear some of the debt so I would be able to cover the mortgage application to keep our family home. She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back

As it is, I ended up having to sell the property at a massive loss as I was just short on the mortgage amount and ended up taking on a further £12k credit card and loan debt to cover the mortgage shortfall, solicitors and estate agents fees - essentially wiping out the £10k that she had given me to help out.

I moved into a rented property and had around a total of £25k of credit card debt plus a £5k loan I had to take out to pay the mortgage shortfall off. Really struggled - had to feed my kids from a food bank. Lived an utterly miserable life truth be told and I honestly at my low points struggled to soldier on, especially through covid when I was furloughed and bringing in every less. She knew how low I was and at most, would pass me the odd £20 here and there.

I turned my life around 2 years ago through hard work. My debts are in a completely different place now - I’ve got £2k left on a credit card and my car - which I bought with a loan last year as had to have a decent ish car for work (sales job, car allowance and I cover around 20k miles+ per annum) I live with my new partner in his mortgaged house and pay towards that, we are hoping to buy a house together at some point but wont be doing until I actually have some savings to be able to pay towards the deposit

Anyway, I happened to mention to my mum that my debts were almost cleared and I could tell what she was thinking - that it was time to start paying the £10k back to her

Now I do appreciate that I did borrow this from her in good faith and she was so kind to help me out but Im finally at a stage where I can start to do things with my kids too as well as start a savings account. It’s like our lives have been on hold for over 5 years and she knows how much I’ve struggled. So for me to pay her back at the rate that I had been trying to clear my debts, it would mean that our lives are on hold for quite a bit longer

I have managed to clear my debts purely through commission I receive through my sales job - so it’s not guaranteed each month either. I’ve just worked hard and been lucky

I have considered asking if the debt could be factored into her will - so whatever the amount is, that my sibling would receive £10k more than me. Ive also considered proposing paying her back at a rate of £100 per month - equally I do feel like £100 is a drop in the ocean for her, she literally does not need it. I’m certainly not going to ignore the fact that the debt is there but I know she’s going to ask soon. What would you do?

I presume there is a halfway house between living as you have been and not paying your mum back at all. I'd half the figure you've been paying each month on debt and start paying it to your mum

As a mum I’d have written it off and I wouldn’t have seen my adult children struggling and going to a food bank. I don’t have anything like your mother’s income.
Is she likely to write it off if you make an effort to repay? Say offer £100 a month, would she say that’s ok, let’s leave it after two or three months?

First off, congratulations on digging your way out of debt and escaping an abusive marriage.

Secondly, talk to your mum. Be open about your intent to pay back the loan and offer a fair amount (for you & her). I think if you did the £100-a-month thing it would take the pressure off, with the option of paying it off in a lump sum from a commission bonus in the future, if you wished to.

Thirdly, safeguard anything you put into a new house with your new partner.

Agreed.

Well done OP.

Cannot fathom a parent watching a child go to a food bank.

Suggest a small nominal repayment every month to your mother.

Don't mention the will.

Wishing you well.

I'm not sure about the will idea tbh.

Hey mum, that ten grand I owe you, can you just knock it off what I'll get when you snuff it instead?

Well, I think your mum is being incredibly mean both in spirit and behaviour.

She has £70K a year in a pension which is a huge pension.

I don't know what your late dad did, but widows usually receive 50% so if he had a pension of £120K pa he must have been in a 6-figure role for most of his life.

Are you sure she is receiving that much? (I have close friends who are retired on very good final salary pensions, but none would be on £120K pa as a pension.)

I think your idea is completely reasonable- forgo the £10K now as she clearly has no need for it - and deduct that from your share of the inheritance.

Many of my close friends who are retired have dug into pension pots, or savings, and given early gifts to their children to enable them to buy houses etc. They did the calculations on what they need to live on, with FA advice, and decided to make a difference to their children's lives now, not in the future. It also reduces inheritance tax if the gifts are made 7 years before the parents die.

If I was in your Mum's position - extremely wealthy as a pensioner- I'd not think twice about wiping off the debt and saying don't repay it, I'll just adjust my will to say that the siblings get the same amount in the end.

@Finallyoutofthewoods i think you’ve had a very hard time here unjustifiably. You’ve done extremely well to fight back, and if I was your mum I would definitely write off the debt, and probably give your sibling the equivalent, or alter my will to make it equal. I find it very hard to understand why a well off parent wouldn’t do this tbh. We have always tried to be generous to our children as were our parents, if nothing else it helps to stave off inheritance tax as we are lucky to be in the position that there would be tax payable if we both died tomorrow. Good luck and I hope you can sort this.

When I was in my early 20s, my mum wrote off about 4k of debt I owed her. But she only did it after I'd stuck to a repayment plan for about a year. I guess she wanted to see that I'd improved my situation, was capable of arranging my finances etc rather than to make it so easy for me.

In your shoes, I'd probably show some commitment to making repayments and have the conversation about accounting for the remainder in her will later down the line. I think you'll have her respect more by at least starting to pay her back.

So why make yourself financially dependent on the new guy? You are barely out of debt and you are buying with someone else?

There does seem to be a pattern of not standing on your own two feet.

Maybe pre-empt her bringing this up by bringing it up yourself. You could refer to the conversation where you told her you'd paid off your debt and say, obviously the next thing is to pay you back for the money you lent me, would it be ok if I set up a small regular payment as that's the only way I can do it.
Perhaps if she sees that you start with assuming you are going to be paying it back now, she might then appreciate that you are taking responsibility for that and are not ignoring it. Maybe then, she'll be more inclined to write it off.
If she thinks you're intending to ignore it, perhaps that would make her more inclined to want you to pay her back.

I think it would be a good idea for you to pay it back. While you have been diligent about paying off your previous debts I worry that once you are free of all current debts you are paying off your spending ways will return! Having your mums debt to repay will keep your spending in line with your income and you won’t fall back into your old ways.

If you were mine I couldn't see you having to feed the DCs with a food bank and I would write off the debt.

But in your shoes I would offer a repayment plan if she asks for the money back and do not loan from her again.

Talk to your Mum about how the loan & how the repayment will take place.
Offer to pay her £100/month & a lump sum whenever some commission comes in.

Hopefully she'll be pleased that you've raised it with her in a mature fashion & she will say 'forget it'.
If she does want you to repay her then so be it. Make sure there is a paper trail for all your repayments & once you have fully paid her back, ask for written confirmation that this has happened.

This will obviously leave a bitter taste in your mouth & yes, your relationship will never be the same. It might be worth distancing yourself from your mother.
Such is the life of the not-so-golden child.

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t pay the money back you owe? Especially as you are in a better position now and can afford to do so.

in all honesty your post just comes across as masses of excuses. She gave that money to you on your word you would pay her back.

you need to be financially independent and set an example to your children. Your poor mum

Yabu and you’re also yabu for that massive dripfeed presumably because you didn’t like the replies you was receiving. You said you would pay it back, so do it. Slating her expensive purchases such as blinds or god knows what doesn’t make you a better person than her nor does it allow you to slack off. She trusted and allowed you that money and now you have to be responsible.

Do the right thing! It is your mum's money : so pay it BACK!!!

Sorry, forgot the second half of my message.

If you split with new DP, will you be able to afford to live and take care of your children alone?

you've done amazingly well to get yourself out of a shit situation OP. I would offer to pay it back at 100 a month, yes. She may say no.

I echo this entirely.

Too many people rely on inheritance and wills, just pay back the money. Shouldn't borrow if you can't repay. Why should your mother have to wait OP because you've been struggling? It's irrelevant how much money she has, it's the principle.you need to pay it back, never mind considering purchasing another property etc. Priorities need put in order.

Honestly it sounds like you have always been bad with money management and she knows it. And now you have just found a man with money and moved yourself and kids into his house. Not a sign of financial stability or better decision making. Your mom likely knows she will never see the money she gave you and she hasn't asked for it back but why would she loan you more when you are still living beyond your means through loans and see another man's wallet and assets as a way to get more money. You need a financial advisor to teach you money management not a new guy to move your kids in with to get at his cash.

@Finallyoutofthewoods firstly, I hope you are proud at how well you have done to have gotten yourself out of such an awful situation. Well done you. Secondly, it sounds to me like you're assuming what she may or may not be thinking. I would just have an honest conversation with her. I'd just say - I wanted to talk to you about the loan you very generously gave me. I'm so grateful for the help you gave me. I wondered what you want to do in terms of repayment, and to ask whether you'd consider waiting a bit longer for repayment or considering other options (e.g. leaving me less money in your will to repay it). It has been a long hard road for me to repay the debt I have had to over the last few years and I'd really like to be able to put the debt repayment money towards X [holiday for the kids etc etc]. If you want me to start repaying now then if course that's your right to ask that and I'd be happy to do so. But I'd be really grateful for a break if you would be so generous as to agree to that.' And see what she says. She might be willing to write it off altogether, you never know. Good luck.

Appreciate that there are sometimes complexities, but if it's taken you 2 years of tight spending to pay back £30k (plus interest?), then paying the £10k at the same rate is likely to just be a matter of a few months more?

If so, I appreciate you are inpatient to be free to spend your money again, but it doesn't sound too onerous to do the right thing here and pay her back.

I can’t understand why any parent would watch their adult child go through what you’ve gone through and want that money back. It’s actually repulsive on her part.

Some many awful posts on here. Things are getting worse on Mumsnet.
You can give advice and be supportive even if you don't agree with the OP. There's a nice way of saying you have a debt to your Mum and should attempt to repay it without laughing at dripfeeds and complaining about the way OP supposedly deliberately portrayed the Mum and siblings in a particular light to gain sympathy.
The backstory of how much the Mum gets in pension and spending 8K on blinds is pretty important, as is the fact she was paying for the siblings' new cars until recently. It shows that the Mum is not living from hand to mouth and that getting the 10K back is not a matter of urgency.
However, the OP does have a debt and should talk to her Mum about starting to pay it back and how much she can realistically afford to pay back. I wouldn't go down the adjusting the will route, could cause problems later.

I find it pretty shitty of a Mum to stand by and watch her daughter have to feed the grandkids from foodbanks, while living mortgage free, car paid off and on 60K a year.

Talk to Mum along the lines of what you've said here and ask her how she'd like you to deal with this?