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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Borrowed money from my mum

669 replies

Finallyoutofthewoods · 03/03/2023 10:56

I know this thread will potentially get a lot of negative comments - please be kind

About 5 years ago I was in the worst financial position I had ever been in. Single parent, trying desperately to take on a mortgage alone after a family breakdown, in massive debt as I ended up saddled with the debt from my marriage as it had all been put in my name - anything we had done to our house, holidays, kids stuff, the lot had all gone in my name as my ex had a dreadful credit rating

My mum on the other hand is extremely financially well off - her house paid for in cash, she paid for her brand new car in cash, she receives the equivalent of a £60k salary in a private pension - my late fathers pension - as well as full state pension. My mum has not worked since she was in her early 20’s - I know Dad paid off her NI contributions so she would get full state pension. She has decent savings and literally doesn’t and never has had to worry about money. She spends money like it’s water though - she uses my email address for any large purchases she makes and for example she spent £8k on blinds for a really small conservatory a few months ago. The conservatory literally fits 2 small chairs and a cafe table in it, so why the blinds were £8k is beyond me.

5 years ago I asked if I could borrow £10k off her in an attempt to clear some of the debt so I would be able to cover the mortgage application to keep our family home. She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back

As it is, I ended up having to sell the property at a massive loss as I was just short on the mortgage amount and ended up taking on a further £12k credit card and loan debt to cover the mortgage shortfall, solicitors and estate agents fees - essentially wiping out the £10k that she had given me to help out.

I moved into a rented property and had around a total of £25k of credit card debt plus a £5k loan I had to take out to pay the mortgage shortfall off. Really struggled - had to feed my kids from a food bank. Lived an utterly miserable life truth be told and I honestly at my low points struggled to soldier on, especially through covid when I was furloughed and bringing in every less. She knew how low I was and at most, would pass me the odd £20 here and there.

I turned my life around 2 years ago through hard work. My debts are in a completely different place now - I’ve got £2k left on a credit card and my car - which I bought with a loan last year as had to have a decent ish car for work (sales job, car allowance and I cover around 20k miles+ per annum) I live with my new partner in his mortgaged house and pay towards that, we are hoping to buy a house together at some point but wont be doing until I actually have some savings to be able to pay towards the deposit

Anyway, I happened to mention to my mum that my debts were almost cleared and I could tell what she was thinking - that it was time to start paying the £10k back to her

Now I do appreciate that I did borrow this from her in good faith and she was so kind to help me out but Im finally at a stage where I can start to do things with my kids too as well as start a savings account. It’s like our lives have been on hold for over 5 years and she knows how much I’ve struggled. So for me to pay her back at the rate that I had been trying to clear my debts, it would mean that our lives are on hold for quite a bit longer

I have managed to clear my debts purely through commission I receive through my sales job - so it’s not guaranteed each month either. I’ve just worked hard and been lucky

I have considered asking if the debt could be factored into her will - so whatever the amount is, that my sibling would receive £10k more than me. Ive also considered proposing paying her back at a rate of £100 per month - equally I do feel like £100 is a drop in the ocean for her, she literally does not need it. I’m certainly not going to ignore the fact that the debt is there but I know she’s going to ask soon. What would you do?

OP posts:
Bekindnotarsey · 06/03/2023 16:38

OP this is going on & on hun, to many replies to go through to know if you have spoken to your Mum…So have you spoken? And what was the outcome? I wish you well in your future whatever the outcome🙂

fUNNYfACE36 · 07/03/2023 10:01

Finallyoutofthewoods · 04/03/2023 19:11

Thanks for all responses - positive and negative

My historic debt that I’ve cleared was amassed for a number of reasons and none were mindless irresponsible spending. White goods, a moderate TV (as we literally didn’t have one), furniture for a completely unfurnished house (ram raided IKEA) and the largest purchase on the credit card was having to have private surgery because what I needed to have done wasn’t covered on the NHS - my surgery and aftercare cost £9k. Other than that - I had a couple of years of having to often put bills and petrol to actually get to work on my credit card as my single income salary literally didn’t cover mine and my kids outgoings. And I’m not sure how much of you know about UC but they don’t pay towards mortgages, only rent, hence why eventually when I sold and rented a property for a couple of years we could begin to get straight financially. It wasn’t clothes and holidays as some have suggested! I wish it was - my wardrobe is naff and I’d love to have travelled more.

I moved in with DP around 18 months ago - when I also changed jobs annd significantly increased my salary and was able to start paying debts off at a higher rate. As for paying towards bills/mortgage and decorating rooms - I would have to do this anyway whether I lived with him or as it would be, in a rented property. We’ve painted rooms and bought bedding - hardly renovation work or anything major. And what I pay towards his house now is significantly less than if I owned it continued to rent a home by myself. Our plan is to eventually sell his house and buy a home together but it wouldn’t be for a number of years since right now, our home is perfect for us and our needs. On the other hand, I’d like to have savings either way so I would always have a back up plan or use this eventually towards our deposit when we buy our home together

My car loan seems to have raised issues with some of you too - please note I travel upwards of 20k miles per annum, usually motorways and I do actually need a suitable car for doing so. I have a fairly decent ‘mum type’ 4x4 style car - which I feel safe in on motorways and it’s safe for my kids. My loan payment for that matches what work pay me in car allowance. My old car cut out frequently on journeys - completely cutting out twice on very busy motorways - if you haven’t been stranded in the middle of a smart motorway where there is no refuge then you cannot begin to comprehend the sheer terror this ensues. Changing my car was the only option here

Im planning on going to see my Mum tomorrow - despite what has been suggested I am very grateful of the £10k she lent to me. It was borrowed in an effort to keep my home, my children’s home that we all loved and unfortunately because of the existing debt and my then low salary it just wasn’t enough to push it all through.

Im going to suggest a monthly payment of £100 a month - which I do feel is reasonable. I would like to start living my life after such a shitty time - yes I do look at holidays but equally my children hear about all the lovely holidays their friends go on and they would like to experience these things too. Why is this deemed to be that I sound irresponsible??

Where I have mentioned her spending - this has only been to factually state the level of her income and spending capability. She is in a very fortunate position but I do also agree with others, that this is the reason that she doesn’t understand exactly what I’ve been through

So you say now you didnt put holidays on your credit card, but in your op you said you did??

MRex · 07/03/2023 10:22

OhMyOhMyiy · 06/03/2023 13:26

No, we all have the same information that is written in the posts. And then we form an opinion. Nothing in the posts deserves some of the posts OP received.

So unless someone is certain that what they are assuming is actually correct it is definitely not on to write some of the responses we have seen.

And even if some of the assumptions were correct it is questionable what did some of the posts achieve, so what was the point of them.

I think you've missed that OP has changed some of the "facts" during the process. Filter just OP's posts and have a read. It was her partner's spending including holidays, then it was surgery and petrol. That type of switching up of the story makes people naturally suspicious that OP is not as responsible as she is trying to pretend, and if that's the type of story change mum gets then you can see why she might be wary of giving handouts. In any event, it's also quite reasonable to point out that OP doesn't have a rightful claim on her mum's money and that her mum is reasonable to expect that a loan given years ago should be repaid in a reasonable timeframe. You can have an opinion that mothers should give some or even all of their money to adult children, but you should accept that others will disagree.

OhMyOhMyiy · 07/03/2023 12:07

MRex · 07/03/2023 10:22

I think you've missed that OP has changed some of the "facts" during the process. Filter just OP's posts and have a read. It was her partner's spending including holidays, then it was surgery and petrol. That type of switching up of the story makes people naturally suspicious that OP is not as responsible as she is trying to pretend, and if that's the type of story change mum gets then you can see why she might be wary of giving handouts. In any event, it's also quite reasonable to point out that OP doesn't have a rightful claim on her mum's money and that her mum is reasonable to expect that a loan given years ago should be repaid in a reasonable timeframe. You can have an opinion that mothers should give some or even all of their money to adult children, but you should accept that others will disagree.

Show quote history

I had two main questions. What is it that makes some people to have such strong feelings about the money having to be returned to the mum. Second, for the posts that are personally attacking OP, what are the posters trying to achieve.

I read the full OP update. As most things, nothing is black and white. Some people can’t even dream about holiday etc. OP’s father was on a good salary and OP would’ve grown up in a certain environment etc, etc… OPs mum is also used to certain standard of living and has habits that her circumstances allow her to have etc, etc…

Those people who feel very strongly about this topic, why not share the actual experience they have or had themselves? If OP starts seeing herself and her mum in the situations described by others and sees the impact such situation had on people she might take the feedback on board. The people have valuable stories to share, so why not do that?

Regarding the posts that are personally attacking OP (here and in other threads) that is unnecessary. What is the motivation for those.

Also it is not fair some people commented on OPs mum not being generous etc. But no one knows who OPs mum is and OPs mum will not read this post so she will not be impacted by those comments. Still not fair, as well as not fair call OP things.

ohdelay · 07/03/2023 13:25

@OhMyOhMyiy I've followed this thread in disbelief at the levels of CF on here. Can you really not understand the core values of "your word". When you take a loan you make a commitment to pay it back. It is that simple. The mother could be Hitler, doesn't the change the fact OP took a loan from her with the agreement to pay it back. That's on her. I'm genuinely surprised that this isn't a common value anymore. It will never be okay to weasel out on your word.

Haffiana · 07/03/2023 13:26

It is simple. OP whinges that her undeserving DM was 'given' money by her own husband, that DM never worked & criticises what her DM spends her own money on.

In the same breath OP entitledly whinges that her DM has not given money to her, the oh-so-deserving and not-at-all financially feckless OP.

There is so much irony here that it is probably affecting the moons orbit.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 07/03/2023 13:35

I think regardless of the mother’s situation anyone would have a bit of a raised eyebrow if someone, even their child, sat down and started chatting about how almost debt free they were when they had borrowed 10k from you.

To not even acknowledge it is massively rude.

Ineke · 07/03/2023 16:56

OP’s mum might well be well off, but does anyone know what the future holds. What if she needs care, or becomes ill. She is a widow so is on her own, her savings will be needed if one day she will need to go to a care home, people don’t think it will happen to them, until it does. But that’s not the point, she lent you, and you agreed to pay back, whether or not she is wealthy with money to spend.

OhMyOhMyiy · 07/03/2023 19:24

@ohdelay I can understand that some of us are much more rigid (for lack of better word) than others.

To pick up on the Hitler theme and going quite way off original topic of OPs post, say I really value my word and always fulfil all my commitments. I borrow money of this relative. It’s time to pay back. Since I borrowed the money it transpired the relative is involved in illegal activities and the money I’m returning will fund those activities, say child trafficking. Veeeeery extreme scenario. So I return the money because I’m a man (or a woman in my case) of my word. Now my consciousness is clear because I’m a man of my word. Or not, it’s not clear as I’m hiding behind my word but deep down I feel somehow implicit.

Also, it is not unusual for contracts to be renegotiated.

OP mentioned to her mum she paid off almost all of her debts but no mention of the 10k. Some argue how inconsiderate. OPs mum knows OP is not in the best financial situation and makes 8K and other purchases using her email so OP can see all of that. Other’s argue this is inconsiderate.

Everyone can say what they feel in their view would be the right thing to do in OPs place. But there is absolutely no need for the additional spins and viciousness of some of the posts.

ohdelay · 07/03/2023 20:35

OhMyOhMyiy · 07/03/2023 19:24

@ohdelay I can understand that some of us are much more rigid (for lack of better word) than others.

To pick up on the Hitler theme and going quite way off original topic of OPs post, say I really value my word and always fulfil all my commitments. I borrow money of this relative. It’s time to pay back. Since I borrowed the money it transpired the relative is involved in illegal activities and the money I’m returning will fund those activities, say child trafficking. Veeeeery extreme scenario. So I return the money because I’m a man (or a woman in my case) of my word. Now my consciousness is clear because I’m a man of my word. Or not, it’s not clear as I’m hiding behind my word but deep down I feel somehow implicit.

Also, it is not unusual for contracts to be renegotiated.

OP mentioned to her mum she paid off almost all of her debts but no mention of the 10k. Some argue how inconsiderate. OPs mum knows OP is not in the best financial situation and makes 8K and other purchases using her email so OP can see all of that. Other’s argue this is inconsiderate.

Everyone can say what they feel in their view would be the right thing to do in OPs place. But there is absolutely no need for the additional spins and viciousness of some of the posts.

So, nothing on the value of the OP's word, any other common values we dont share? Keeping your word (otherwise known as not lying) is rigid. Explains a lot. Will keep on observing, but not everyone is a mark so will call out cheeky fuckers as I see them.

ReadersD1gest · 07/03/2023 21:06

What is it that makes some people to have such strong feelings about the money having to be returned to the mum
It's the Mums's money @OhMyOhMyiy !! That's it. That's all.
None of your essay length posts show any reason whatsoever why op should not be expected to have the decency to repay the money she's borrowed.

ReadersD1gest · 07/03/2023 21:07

Also, it is not unusual for contracts to be renegotiated
Not unilaterally, no. What are you on??

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 07/03/2023 21:17

Also, it is not unusual for contracts to be renegotiated.

Renegotiations involve both parties.

Not one side deciding that a 10k loan isn’t a debt and doesn’t need paid back as originally agreed.

OhMyOhMyiy · 07/03/2023 22:10

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 07/03/2023 21:17

Also, it is not unusual for contracts to be renegotiated.

Renegotiations involve both parties.

Not one side deciding that a 10k loan isn’t a debt and doesn’t need paid back as originally agreed.

OP never said she is not repaying the loan. She was consulting her advisors, here on MN, before deciding what opening proposal will she put in front of her mum.

ReadersD1gest · 07/03/2023 22:20

Consulting her MN advisors? You really are on the windup @OhMyOhMyiy
🤣🤣🤣

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 07/03/2023 22:26

OhMyOhMyiy · 07/03/2023 22:10

OP never said she is not repaying the loan. She was consulting her advisors, here on MN, before deciding what opening proposal will she put in front of her mum.

Show quote history

She announced to her mother that her debts were almost cleared… with zero recognition of the debt to her

Anyway, I happened to mention to my mum that my debts were almost cleared and I could tell what she was thinking - that it was time to start paying the £10k back to her

OhMyOhMyiy · 07/03/2023 22:36

@YetMoreNewBeginnings that is a bit of a pick and mix approach to the post and post updates. OP also acknowledged it is still a loan and she decided upon a proposal how to start repaying it.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 07/03/2023 22:38

OhMyOhMyiy · 07/03/2023 22:36

@YetMoreNewBeginnings that is a bit of a pick and mix approach to the post and post updates. OP also acknowledged it is still a loan and she decided upon a proposal how to start repaying it.

Not to her mother she didn’t.

Which was my point

but you know that, you’re just at the wind up

LoisLane66 · 30/04/2023 18:32

So the OP proposes paying her mum back over EIGHT YEARS @ £1200 pa. 🤔😲🤐

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