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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Borrowed money from my mum

669 replies

Finallyoutofthewoods · 03/03/2023 10:56

I know this thread will potentially get a lot of negative comments - please be kind

About 5 years ago I was in the worst financial position I had ever been in. Single parent, trying desperately to take on a mortgage alone after a family breakdown, in massive debt as I ended up saddled with the debt from my marriage as it had all been put in my name - anything we had done to our house, holidays, kids stuff, the lot had all gone in my name as my ex had a dreadful credit rating

My mum on the other hand is extremely financially well off - her house paid for in cash, she paid for her brand new car in cash, she receives the equivalent of a £60k salary in a private pension - my late fathers pension - as well as full state pension. My mum has not worked since she was in her early 20’s - I know Dad paid off her NI contributions so she would get full state pension. She has decent savings and literally doesn’t and never has had to worry about money. She spends money like it’s water though - she uses my email address for any large purchases she makes and for example she spent £8k on blinds for a really small conservatory a few months ago. The conservatory literally fits 2 small chairs and a cafe table in it, so why the blinds were £8k is beyond me.

5 years ago I asked if I could borrow £10k off her in an attempt to clear some of the debt so I would be able to cover the mortgage application to keep our family home. She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back

As it is, I ended up having to sell the property at a massive loss as I was just short on the mortgage amount and ended up taking on a further £12k credit card and loan debt to cover the mortgage shortfall, solicitors and estate agents fees - essentially wiping out the £10k that she had given me to help out.

I moved into a rented property and had around a total of £25k of credit card debt plus a £5k loan I had to take out to pay the mortgage shortfall off. Really struggled - had to feed my kids from a food bank. Lived an utterly miserable life truth be told and I honestly at my low points struggled to soldier on, especially through covid when I was furloughed and bringing in every less. She knew how low I was and at most, would pass me the odd £20 here and there.

I turned my life around 2 years ago through hard work. My debts are in a completely different place now - I’ve got £2k left on a credit card and my car - which I bought with a loan last year as had to have a decent ish car for work (sales job, car allowance and I cover around 20k miles+ per annum) I live with my new partner in his mortgaged house and pay towards that, we are hoping to buy a house together at some point but wont be doing until I actually have some savings to be able to pay towards the deposit

Anyway, I happened to mention to my mum that my debts were almost cleared and I could tell what she was thinking - that it was time to start paying the £10k back to her

Now I do appreciate that I did borrow this from her in good faith and she was so kind to help me out but Im finally at a stage where I can start to do things with my kids too as well as start a savings account. It’s like our lives have been on hold for over 5 years and she knows how much I’ve struggled. So for me to pay her back at the rate that I had been trying to clear my debts, it would mean that our lives are on hold for quite a bit longer

I have managed to clear my debts purely through commission I receive through my sales job - so it’s not guaranteed each month either. I’ve just worked hard and been lucky

I have considered asking if the debt could be factored into her will - so whatever the amount is, that my sibling would receive £10k more than me. Ive also considered proposing paying her back at a rate of £100 per month - equally I do feel like £100 is a drop in the ocean for her, she literally does not need it. I’m certainly not going to ignore the fact that the debt is there but I know she’s going to ask soon. What would you do?

OP posts:
AIBUNoNo · 05/03/2023 09:02

CantStopWontStop0 · 05/03/2023 08:58

YABU by wanting to change the agreed conditions of your received loan.

Would you not even consider that the mother might find some generosity and waive it?

Endofmytetherfinally · 05/03/2023 09:03

I'd be suprised if anyone would be happy at being paid off at 100 quid a month.

It'll take 8 years.. yes she might not "need" it in the way that you think she should to have it paid at a faster rate but she probably doesn't want it hanging over your relationship all that time.

Paying for your sisters new cars as an adult is also very odd. Is this to do with your dad dying and her feeling that money was owed to you both?

CantStopWontStop0 · 05/03/2023 09:06

AIBUNoNo · 05/03/2023 09:02

Would you not even consider that the mother might find some generosity and waive it?

Show quote history

That's an entitledi dealistic assumption and not what was agreed initially.

Based on principle I'd pay it back. If it was my child I'd have asked for the money back sooner, but because I need it, but because my child needs to learn financial responsibility.

AIBUNoNo · 05/03/2023 09:14

CantStopWontStop0 · 05/03/2023 09:06

That's an entitledi dealistic assumption and not what was agreed initially.

Based on principle I'd pay it back. If it was my child I'd have asked for the money back sooner, but because I need it, but because my child needs to learn financial responsibility.

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She's not a child. She is a woman in her 40s.
She has paid back debts of over £30K. and dragged herself out of the gutter following escaping an abusive marriage.

Your post says an awful lot about you and you don't come across as terribly kind or caring.

CantStopWontStop0 · 05/03/2023 09:17

AIBUNoNo · 05/03/2023 09:14

She's not a child. She is a woman in her 40s.
She has paid back debts of over £30K. and dragged herself out of the gutter following escaping an abusive marriage.

Your post says an awful lot about you and you don't come across as terribly kind or caring.

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Oh she's in her 40s? In which case she should definitely pay it back

Liorae · 05/03/2023 09:27

BellePeppa · 04/03/2023 20:41

Good post and it always amazes me that adult child helping out parent who is struggling is rarely frowned upon but parent helping adult child is seen as a shameful (or grabby) thing.

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Are kidding me? On Mumsnet they would tell you that you owe your mother nothing, your own 'little family' is more important, until of course you are looking for your presumed 'inheritance'...

BMrs · 05/03/2023 09:29

I would have this exact conversation with your mum and throw out your options and see what she says?

I can totally see where you're coming from and it's hard to believe she wouldn't just wipe it off but some families are very different around money matters but I think your suggestions are reasonable.

Liorae · 05/03/2023 09:42

mybunniesandme · 04/03/2023 19:41

massive debt as I ended up saddled with the debt from my marriage as it had all been put in my name

So was the debt yours then or not? If you had £9k of private surgery.....your initial post made out like your ex had run up loads of personal debt which somehow you got saddled with but sounds like the debt was more yours and ours than his??

Am I the only one thinking boob job?

inamarina · 05/03/2023 09:49

sammylady37 · 04/03/2023 19:10

Nothing in OPs posts comes across that she is some air head that doesn’t know what she is doing

Really? Not even the fact that she is spending money decorating and paying a mortgage on a house she doesn’t own, at the same time as owing a 5 figure sum? That seems spectacularly foolish to me, to put it mildly.

People criticizing OP for paying towards her new partner‘s mortgage - I don’t quite understand what the alternative would be if she wanted to contribute? Some sort of rental contract with the partner?
I‘ve often seen people being criticized on here for moving in with their partner (or letting their partner move in with them) without contributing.
What is the correct solution if you’re not married yet, but living together (and I‘m not talking about couples who live like this for decades, just for a limited period before you marry and/or buy a house together).
Maybe because I‘m from a country where the majority of people rent rather then own their houses/ flats - but to me the concept of paying for and decorating a place you don’t own just doesn’t seem that outlandish.

GMOOH2023 · 05/03/2023 10:21

@Liorae Am I the only one thinking boob job?

Probably.

Since when has this been required due to a birth defect?

JustKeepGoingThere · 05/03/2023 10:30

AIBUNoNo · 05/03/2023 09:00

@JustKeepGoingThere Do you not feel that the mother was unkind to see her DD struggle when she could have help her out- unconditionally- with no expectation of a repayment, considering how wealthy she is?

I'm shocked TBH at the black and white line so many posters here are taking 'You borrowed so you MUST pay it back' without any consideration for the disparity in wealth between the OP and her mother.

Parents usually want to make life better for their children, especially if they can afford to.

If one of my kids was struggling I would help them out and even if they weren't struggling I would give them money if I could afford it. That's by the by though.

The OP has borrowed money and as the person borrowing the money I think it's really mean and selfish to decide to mess her Mum around and only pay it back so slowly and then to do it with such a begrudging way makes it even worse. It's really shitty for her to put the Mum in that position.

We can't possibly know all the facts from the OPs posts. She has drip fed quite a bit of info. Maybe the Mum is mean and uncaring but it's still her money. It doesn't give the OP the right to behave so badly.

OhMyOhMyiy · 05/03/2023 10:36

sammylady37 · 05/03/2023 08:25

Maybe for the op who chooses to wilfully ignore such posts (the classic OP: ‘AIBU?’ posters: yes OP: ‘IANU, you’re all horrible’ comment became a classic comment because of how frequently various OPs choose that approach) But the beauty of MN is that the OP isn’t the only one reading the thread, there are various other posters too, some of whom may be in very similar situations and for whom the penny may drop when they read posts that are essentially calling out the unreasonable behaviour/attitude.

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And this comes back to the original point. Those people who sound in their posts rather harsh, what are their personal experiences and circumstances that makes them respond in such way?

The chances are their personal experience had a bad outcome, and then that frustration, anger, fear or what ever the feeling is projected in their posts. Maybe well meaning, maybe just used as a channel to vent, and then it all ends up with further frustration, anger, attacks and defensive behaviour.

AIBUNoNo · 05/03/2023 10:47

@JustKeepGoingThere But the OP has never said that she won't repay it. I don't know why she is getting such a hard time! She's asked if it would be reasonable to have the £10K taken out of any money she may get as an inheritance OR if she could repay in installments.

Maybe I am unusual, it seems it from the comments here, but I get far more pleasure from giving away money to my DCs who really need it, than holding onto it in my savings.

I loaned a DC £5K, which they were repaying, and decided to write off the loan once they started buying a house because they were completely stretched. It was a 'kind action' and that seems to what is missing here- any appreciation of what a parent might do, that shows love and kindness when they are in a position to do so. My DCs have never, ever, asked for money. They have worked very hard but I take the view that their needs are greater than mine, so what's the point holding onto money they will get anyway, at some point, when it will make a difference to their lives now?

We have enough for our lives now and I'd rather help them out.

I know lots of families who have handed over £100K, £200K, to help their children out, rather than holding onto it until they die.

inamarina · 05/03/2023 10:48

Pigletnotatwiglet · 04/03/2023 20:56

Did I go into debt for surgery? Yes I did. It was around 10 years ago

So you are a long long time in debt and it just got worse and worse and worse but yet it is your ex who had a poor credit rating.

Not sure what point you‘re trying to make here.
Getting a loan and paying it off does not give you a bad credit rating as far as I know.

OP said that the surgery happened years before her breakup, it’s entirely possible that at that moment in time her partner had a bad credit rating whereas she didn’t.

Liorae · 05/03/2023 10:51

AIBUNoNo · 05/03/2023 10:47

@JustKeepGoingThere But the OP has never said that she won't repay it. I don't know why she is getting such a hard time! She's asked if it would be reasonable to have the £10K taken out of any money she may get as an inheritance OR if she could repay in installments.

Maybe I am unusual, it seems it from the comments here, but I get far more pleasure from giving away money to my DCs who really need it, than holding onto it in my savings.

I loaned a DC £5K, which they were repaying, and decided to write off the loan once they started buying a house because they were completely stretched. It was a 'kind action' and that seems to what is missing here- any appreciation of what a parent might do, that shows love and kindness when they are in a position to do so. My DCs have never, ever, asked for money. They have worked very hard but I take the view that their needs are greater than mine, so what's the point holding onto money they will get anyway, at some point, when it will make a difference to their lives now?

We have enough for our lives now and I'd rather help them out.

I know lots of families who have handed over £100K, £200K, to help their children out, rather than holding onto it until they die.

You know that gifts are taxable?

Brazilianadventure · 05/03/2023 11:05

@Liorae You know that gifts are taxable?

Only if the OPs Mum dies within 7 years and her estate is liable for IHT. Even in that scenario it’s Mums estate that pays the IHT not the op.

orangeblosssom · 05/03/2023 11:12

I would pay the loan back

AIBUNoNo · 05/03/2023 11:35

@Liorae Gifts. Maybe check it out?

Anyone can give away any amount. The tax rules allow for £3K annually, without any tax penalty. If the person gifting dies within 7 years, it's seen as being a means of avoiding IHT and the amount given away will be included in the deceased's estate.

sammylady37 · 05/03/2023 11:40

OhMyOhMyiy · 05/03/2023 10:36

And this comes back to the original point. Those people who sound in their posts rather harsh, what are their personal experiences and circumstances that makes them respond in such way?

The chances are their personal experience had a bad outcome, and then that frustration, anger, fear or what ever the feeling is projected in their posts. Maybe well meaning, maybe just used as a channel to vent, and then it all ends up with further frustration, anger, attacks and defensive behaviour.

Show quote history

Or maybe some people dislike CF behaviour/attitudes and call it out assertively instead of pussy-footing around it and being kind. No amateur psychology needed.

foulksmills · 05/03/2023 11:41

GMOOH2023 · 05/03/2023 10:21

@Liorae Am I the only one thinking boob job?

Probably.

Since when has this been required due to a birth defect?

Born with small boobs 😁

Twentyfirstcenturymumma · 05/03/2023 11:42

Good luck with everything OP. I admire your resilience. Just ignore all those who have no understanding of how tough life can get.

OhMyOhMyiy · 05/03/2023 13:50

sammylady37 · 05/03/2023 11:40

Or maybe some people dislike CF behaviour/attitudes and call it out assertively instead of pussy-footing around it and being kind. No amateur psychology needed.

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The posters feels strongly about a topic as they have experience. Aim of their posts in such cases isn’t for the OP to see their point of view and take it on board. It is to kick the OP. There are not many self respecting people who would tolerate and take on board many of the posts we see, whether there are valid arguments in them or not.

NattyNamechanger · 05/03/2023 14:08

OhMyOhMyiy · 05/03/2023 13:50

The posters feels strongly about a topic as they have experience. Aim of their posts in such cases isn’t for the OP to see their point of view and take it on board. It is to kick the OP. There are not many self respecting people who would tolerate and take on board many of the posts we see, whether there are valid arguments in them or not.

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Disagree with this.
No-one has insulted the Op, just not backed up her version of what she wants to hear.
I personally found her attitudes and behaviours towards her DM shocking.

It's immature and spiteful to slate her on a public forum for being a SAHM,presumably this benefitted the Op as a child?
Her DF ensured that his DW NI payments were fully covered, which is something she should value him for rather than snipe at her for.
There are enough posts about feckless men, this man has valued his DW and ensured her financial security.
Her bitterness towards her DM does her no favours.
This and the attitude towards her DM wanting to be paid back the 10K is what has caused some posters to be fairly robust in their replies.

Helswatts · 05/03/2023 14:09

Hi you said you were married, so irrelevant of the debts being in your name they are marital debts that your ex should have been liable for half. Also if you haven’t done a clean break order in your divorce, you are still financially tied to each other. So your ex could be entitled to half your inheritance etc if he hasn’t remarried.

sammylady37 · 05/03/2023 14:17

OhMyOhMyiy · 05/03/2023 13:50

The posters feels strongly about a topic as they have experience. Aim of their posts in such cases isn’t for the OP to see their point of view and take it on board. It is to kick the OP. There are not many self respecting people who would tolerate and take on board many of the posts we see, whether there are valid arguments in them or not.

Show quote history

That’s more of the amateur psychology though. I’ve strong opinions on many matters, some of which I’ve no experience of… I don’t need to be on the receiving end of every type of CF behaviour before I can have a strong opinion on it.