Borrowed money from my mum

[Finallyoutofthewoods]

I know this thread will potentially get a lot of negative comments - please be kind

About 5 years ago I was in the worst financial position I had ever been in. Single parent, trying desperately to take on a mortgage alone after a family breakdown, in massive debt as I ended up saddled with the debt from my marriage as it had all been put in my name - anything we had done to our house, holidays, kids stuff, the lot had all gone in my name as my ex had a dreadful credit rating

My mum on the other hand is extremely financially well off - her house paid for in cash, she paid for her brand new car in cash, she receives the equivalent of a £60k salary in a private pension - my late fathers pension - as well as full state pension. My mum has not worked since she was in her early 20’s - I know Dad paid off her NI contributions so she would get full state pension. She has decent savings and literally doesn’t and never has had to worry about money. She spends money like it’s water though - she uses my email address for any large purchases she makes and for example she spent £8k on blinds for a really small conservatory a few months ago. The conservatory literally fits 2 small chairs and a cafe table in it, so why the blinds were £8k is beyond me.

5 years ago I asked if I could borrow £10k off her in an attempt to clear some of the debt so I would be able to cover the mortgage application to keep our family home. She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back

As it is, I ended up having to sell the property at a massive loss as I was just short on the mortgage amount and ended up taking on a further £12k credit card and loan debt to cover the mortgage shortfall, solicitors and estate agents fees - essentially wiping out the £10k that she had given me to help out.

I moved into a rented property and had around a total of £25k of credit card debt plus a £5k loan I had to take out to pay the mortgage shortfall off. Really struggled - had to feed my kids from a food bank. Lived an utterly miserable life truth be told and I honestly at my low points struggled to soldier on, especially through covid when I was furloughed and bringing in every less. She knew how low I was and at most, would pass me the odd £20 here and there.

I turned my life around 2 years ago through hard work. My debts are in a completely different place now - I’ve got £2k left on a credit card and my car - which I bought with a loan last year as had to have a decent ish car for work (sales job, car allowance and I cover around 20k miles+ per annum) I live with my new partner in his mortgaged house and pay towards that, we are hoping to buy a house together at some point but wont be doing until I actually have some savings to be able to pay towards the deposit

Anyway, I happened to mention to my mum that my debts were almost cleared and I could tell what she was thinking - that it was time to start paying the £10k back to her

Now I do appreciate that I did borrow this from her in good faith and she was so kind to help me out but Im finally at a stage where I can start to do things with my kids too as well as start a savings account. It’s like our lives have been on hold for over 5 years and she knows how much I’ve struggled. So for me to pay her back at the rate that I had been trying to clear my debts, it would mean that our lives are on hold for quite a bit longer

I have managed to clear my debts purely through commission I receive through my sales job - so it’s not guaranteed each month either. I’ve just worked hard and been lucky

I have considered asking if the debt could be factored into her will - so whatever the amount is, that my sibling would receive £10k more than me. Ive also considered proposing paying her back at a rate of £100 per month - equally I do feel like £100 is a drop in the ocean for her, she literally does not need it. I’m certainly not going to ignore the fact that the debt is there but I know she’s going to ask soon. What would you do?

Surgery was years before my marriage ended - I was simply giving factual info on why the debts crept up over time. The furniture was when I bought my house years even prior to that - because it was my first house and I had no furniture at all

We don’t know that the OP’s money wants the money back since she’s never said a word about it. What we do know is that the OP doesn’t want to pay it back because she’s decided that her mother doesn’t need it and anyway, the OP would like to keep it!

People's comprehension on this thread is bad and you are doing it on purpose to be bitchy. The 9k operation was clearly before the split and losing the house.

So clearly before being lent 10k by her mum and the op mentions that it had been largely paid off.

Loads of bitches on this thread.

Good luck op. Please save a nest egg for if your current relationship breaks up and maybe offer your mum a little more so that it doesn't take so long to pay back. However if she chooses to write it off then great.

All those saying it's entitled to want holidays etc are deluded. It's not entitled, just save some, pay your remaining debts and live within your means and you'll get a holiday eventually.

Did I go into debt for surgery? Yes I did. It was around 10 years ago - long before I borrowed money from my mum and I had spent years prior to this seeing various surgeons and specialists to assess the grade of my condition in order to ascertain if it could be covered on the NHS. Not that I need to explain what it was to someone so judgemental but it was a birth defect that affected my daily life.

Did I go into debt for surgery? Yes I did. It was around 10 years ago

So you are a long long time in debt and it just got worse and worse and worse but yet it is your ex who had a poor credit rating.

Well done OP on turning your life around. YANBU. It's not unheard of for a Will to provide for sums loaned to be deducted from a beneficiary's bequest. It's good that your family are open to discussion and I really hope you and your Mum reach a resolution that's fair to you both. fwiw if I was your Mum and I could afford it, I'd write off the loan on the grounds of equality for all my children. Good luck

Good luck with it all. You sound like a decent human being who has had a tough time of it. Hope things improve for you from now on.

That commentary on my post is merely your opinion, as was my post itself. Opinions vary, it’s what makes discussion fora work so well.

And the “I mean this kindly…” posters always make me laugh. It’s rarely (if ever) meant kindly, it’s usually just a way of appearing magnanimous and superior while actually being critical and condemning.

I think that sounds like a sensible plan . Ignore the people here with too much nastiness .
they seem to think because you made a mistake in picking the wrong partner once you deserve to be somehow punished forever .
I hope your mum understands your perspective , really hoping she will agree with your payment plan or forgive that debt . Good luck

OP you’ve paid off 30K plus interest in 5 years and now, despite more recently having started in a better paid job (plus bonuses) are planning to pay back DM 10K minus interest over 8+ years. As it’s already been 5 years, she will have had to wait 13+ years in total (and she’s an older person).

I don’t know how you can justify this pathetic repayment plan, but presumably that’s why you are spinning yarns on here of £8000 blinds and siblings cars as well as going into detail of DM work history and finances.

It seems emotionally manipulative pitting posters against DM, who after all did help you and trusted you would repay her the money you asked to borrow if you got back on your feet.

Your attitude to her and her money seems contemptuous, entitled and discussions of her will and future care home occur quite cold in the reading. Are you resentful because you feel she should have done more to help you? Did you ask for any other help from her?

As PP said, the story keeps shifting, you implied the debt was caused by your ex, but later most of it seems to be yours, including £9000 for private surgery long before the marriage ended. You said the debt didn’t include holidays, but the holidays debt was part of your OP.

Council tax of a single parent is actually reduced, but I don’t see what that has to do with paying your new partner’s mortgage. I would want to seek legal advice in this situation about how to protect yours and your children’s interests in the medium term.

It’s a red flag for me that he’s letting you contribute as much as you are to his asset without any security for you and that you are not being cautious about this, given the difficult history. I would expect you to contribute more to household bills proportionate to your higher salary, but you are not his tenant and don’t have the same rights, so you shouldn’t be paying equivalent to rent.

Actually, OP, when I moved into DH’s home before we married I did not contribute to his mortgage and I am fine with that as I had no stake in the house at that time. It was his idea. I was building savings which became joint.

I wish you and your children had a stake in this house you are paying towards. It’s awfully convenient for your DP.

Still have the same question, though. What is it that the posters are trying to achieve and why? Comments, opinions, views etc that are not constructive rarely have much effect in terms of action, other than maybe opposite to the statement made in them, as people will get in general naturally defensive if attacked or criticised

Again, it’s merely your opinion that certain comments are ‘not constructive’ and don’t have much effect. My opinion is that comments which are not sugar-coated are often more constructive than the endlessly positive ones, in that they are a jolt of reality or make people think a bit more. We’ve all seen threads where the op agrees and engages with posters who agree with her and post the positive ‘you’re so wonderful’ comments and those who are telling the (sometimes harsh) truth are ignored, accused of bullying etc. But sometimes, things need to be called out or stated clearly.

But if they are ignored and people are accused of bullying they are then not actually achieving any positive outcomes.

You could even offer to pay interest or if your DM offers to deduct it from any inheritance ask her to add that - interest rates the last few years have been quite low

There's been quite a lot of back-pedalling and over-explaining here OPv and it's hard to advise with all the story changes. First the debt is your ex's fault, poor you. Then it's an operation, poor you. Nobody paints a private rental by the way, landlords don't like that, you don't need to buy new furniture every time you move, and you shouldn't pay more towards your DP's mortgage than he does. You certainly didn't need to go into debt for furniture; a bed, a rail, secondhand bits from freecycle and some boxes while you save. The car is fine if it's paid by work, as long as you can return it if you lose your job, but you aren't allowed to charge for non-work use so be very careful about that.

Your mum has a right to have the money back, and getting annoyed with her because you THINK she's wanting it back is really unfair. £100/month is advisory, and you don't need to spend money on a holiday first. Reduce the rent to DP shown to a fairer level with a gap to cover redecoration costs, and pay minimum £500/month off your remaining debt to cards and mum; any commission bonuses give 50% to the debt. £12k would take you maximum 2 years and possibly only one year to clear. Then you can start fresh without the guilt.

I think definitely offer to pay it back - no moaning, no negotiating, just thank her genuinely for helping you out and tell her you’re happy you’re now in a position to start paying it back and can afford x amount per month, as you’ve paid back your other debts. You might find she tells you not to pay it back, or she might like things done ‘properly’ (maybe to show fairness to other siblings), but that has to be completely her choice. If you let on that you’re expecting her to gift it to you when originally it was a loan, she may feel taken advantage of and upset. For the sake of maintaining a good relationship (and if you want to look at it that way, preserving your inheritance one day), I think do the honourable thing.

I really can't understand why no one seems to think the mum is just mean and uncaring

She's super-rich (pension of £70K a year) which she is hardly going to get through, even if she has a world cruise each year, plus savings.

FWIW my experience as an older mum is similar. Not as much pension, by any means. But we did lend DD £5K towards a car which she needed for work.
She started to pay us back monthly, but when she also bought her first house, we waived the loan, on the basis it would a) save us inheritance tax in the long term as we're well over the limit and b) we'd rather she had the benefit of money now rather than in 20 years time.

So many posts here are criticising the OP in a very 'holier than thou' manner, but not many are thinking about her mum who just doesn't seem to care about THIS DD but has thrown money at her siblings, willy nilly.

Pay her back. On principle if nothing else. Those other debts you paid back went to rich people. Why is it any different just because it's your mum. Think outside the box.

Furthermore, people can't ask anything, of someone who owes them nothing. Pay her back...in full...before she requires something substantial from you.

Maybe for the op who chooses to wilfully ignore such posts (the classic OP: ‘AIBU?’ posters: yes OP: ‘IANU, you’re all horrible’ comment became a classic comment because of how frequently various OPs choose that approach) But the beauty of MN is that the OP isn’t the only one reading the thread, there are various other posters too, some of whom may be in very similar situations and for whom the penny may drop when they read posts that are essentially calling out the unreasonable behaviour/attitude.

Why should you get a free 10k? Christ I wouldn't dream of asking for that but I know that's not everyone's stance on borrowing, but if I did I certainly would have set up a payment plan as soon as able. So much entitlement there

"Im going to suggest a monthly payment of £100 a month - which I do feel is reasonable"
^
It's not reasonable. It will take years to pay back. You've had the benefit of the loan. I think it's unfair and selfish of you to prolong paying her back. Your comments about her are nasty. You seem to think it's your right to have her money. You borrowed the money so you need to pay it back.

^

If her mum has any financial sense at all, she'd be giving away as much of her wealth as possible now to her children, (while not leaving herself short) otherwise a huge chunk will go to the Treasury when she dies (assuming she has a house and some savings in her estate 'pot'.)

I don't know her age ( but surely at least late 60s or into her 70s) .

My friends who are comfortably off are giving gifts of at least £3Kpa to their children, to try to reduce IH when the time comes.

I think the OP should offer to repay it, but maybe suggest her mum factors this £10K into her Will.

I still can't get my head around this mum sitting back watching her DD go to food banks to feed her children, when she was living off £70K pa as a single person with no rent or mortgage.

YABU by wanting to change the agreed conditions of your received loan.

@JustKeepGoingThere Do you not feel that the mother was unkind to see her DD struggle when she could have help her out- unconditionally- with no expectation of a repayment, considering how wealthy she is?

I'm shocked TBH at the black and white line so many posters here are taking 'You borrowed so you MUST pay it back' without any consideration for the disparity in wealth between the OP and her mother.

Parents usually want to make life better for their children, especially if they can afford to.