To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole.

I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around.
Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me.

They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told.

Was I BU?

Very true.

There is a young lad on TikTok, he lives in London and drives a reasonably nice car which he has worked for.

He has now got so sick of police stopping him, he filmed a typical week. He was stopped and on most cases handcuffed, 7 times in 4 days. Some times in his car, one time when walking along the street. He has no criminal record, his car is fully legal. Every time he asks why are you stopping he's told "you looked nervous" or "you were driving strangely". At one point the driving strangely was he was in a traffic jam, his dashcam showed this. Then he is told to get out the vehicle, handcuffed, and usually interrogated by at least 8 officers. They will say he is being detained for a search as they believe he is involved or concealing drugs and weapons. They've never found a thing on him.
The MET didn't take the poor guy seriously when he complained before. He then caught a male officer laugh at him when he was told he could go and say "see you tomorrow or later". In most of those 7 stops it's the same officers time and again.

The only thing, as he said that he is "guilty" of is being black and driving a car that's not falling to bits.

The Police are a literal disgrace. I've no respect for most of them as they aren't worthy of it and I firmly believe each and everyone needs to be assessed.

How did they have your mobile number @AngeloMysterioso
Did they ask for it when they stopped you?

I don't see the relevance of providing details of where you worked and no access to alcohol.

That doesn't always figure. People can and do drink at work and they can also drink in their car, or at a friends house.

You don't have to say where you work, or prove your ID, or anything, if stopped unless they arrest you.

100% correct.

I think you did absolutely the right thing. I am also concerned that they wanted to verify where you had been with no cause. As women, we are not protected, and need to have our own approach to safety, which is what you did. You offered to go to the police station. I would also complain about the phone call.

That the police station knew the badge numbers would offer me no comfort whatsoever. Police know who are the bad apples - doesn't mean they will protect women from them.

No, it doesn't. On 3 occasions, witnesses reported Wayne Couzens to police for indecent exposure, with details of his car registration, and police took no action. The last occasion was six days before he murdered Sarah Everard.

He did have a valid ID and he wore his belt, etc but he wasn't on duty. A call to the station or control would have confirmed this.

Don't get me wrong what he did and what Carrick did was down right evil, and yes the met need to answer questions but yes a call would confirm they were on duty and all radios and cars are fitted with GPS trackers. If you called in for a valid police stop by officers on duty the control room would create an incident log to say there had been a stop.

In this scenario, you could ask to verify with the control room or you could state why you don't feel comfortable stepping out of your vehicle, like OP did, if they suspect drink driving, they couldn't let you drive anywhere else, they would be aiding or abetting you. But if there was a real concern she was committing a crime, you could state you would be happy to wait in the car for the attendance of a female police officer. Or call the police and have the control room listening in while procedures were completed.

Any of these would be reasonable. But I agree, someone phoning the following day to tell you off sounds inappropriate.

@orchid220 I think what @flutterbyebaby is saying is that verifying he was a real police officer in that moment wouldn't necessarily have put him off targeting someone else later? Apologies if I've misunderstood!

I don't think it is a positive thing that someone whose driving concerned them was allowed to drive off. Sending a female officer to breathalyse you or phoning the station to confirm who they were and so that someone knew what was happening would be the way to go. When I was being threatened by an aggressive couple one night the police call handler offered to stay on the line till the police got to me to witness what was happening so that would also be an option.

How bloody depressing. If you can’t trust the police, then we’re all fucked.

I would’ve gotten out, wouldn’t have thought anything of it.

No, I'm saying that whether a safety precaution had been taken he would have still gone on to kill, it sounded right in my head at the time. Not saying to sacrifice anyone

Years ago when I was in my late teens, there was a man going around my city, pretending to be a police officer. He was using cloned number plates and had even fitted blue lights behind the grill of his car. He was targeting people at night and making them pay on the spot fines to him for fictitious crimes. One night I'd been to a night club and dropped some friends home.
A car started to follow me, was flashing lights at me, then the blue lights went on in the grill. I absolutely shit myself. This was before mobile phones so I couldn't call anyone. I didn't stop.
In the end it caught up with me at the traffic lights and 2 officers got out.
By this point I was crying.
They turned out to be actual policemen, and once they saw how upset I was, they apologised like mad then escorted me home.
Even back then, they told me that,if I was ever stopped again,I didn't have to get out of the car and a real police officer would allow me to drive somewhere safer.

We know that a good number of police can't be trusted. That's fact, not a feeling. They even know that themselves.

I'm wondering if this approach would work for every woman who tried it? I think you handled it perfectly but my point is more about how the whole exchange is quite dependant on a few different forces most of which are out of our control. For example your refusal to cooperate with the police could have resulted in them justifying using force and whether or not the risk of that happening would compel other women to comply. It's a very tricky situation.

Women demonstrably cannot trust the police. Have you seen the levels of domestic violence from police officers? The treatment of victims of sexual assault? The rapists that were serving officers at the time?

I would have done exactly the same.

I imagine by the time they'd spoken to OP it was clear her "erratic" driving was nothing to do with booze.

Not a chance I would have got out of the car OP. You did the right thing I am certain.

I am also concerned that they wanted to verify where you had been with no cause

That's just part and parcel of subtly ascertaining insight into the situation. Remember, OP has been stopped because there is a suspicion of drunk driving, so if she can immediately provide a cogent, believable reason for driving along at 2am, that serves to allay the concerns of the police somewhat.

The follow-up phone call is a bit odd, but if it's purely from the perspective of a more senior officer providing a gentle reminder that the police, had they been of a mind to do it, would have been well within their rights to obtain a sample one way or another, so that providing a roadside sample when requested is the quickest and easiest way for everyone involved to just get on with other things, then I can somewhat understand it.,

I've haven't trusted the police ever since I was a teenager in a sports club where I was appalled at the conversations I overheard between 3 other club members - a police constable and a sergeant who both worked together and a local GP who they clearly had connections with through work.
A few years later I was asked to ID a stolen vehicle. This was arranged by phone and 2 plain clothes police officers came to my office and waved warrant cards at me. I needed to go out to the car park with them and I remember telling the person on reception that if I wasn't back in the building in 15 minutes to call the police and view the CCTV. This was in 1993. Just a shame it's taken 20 years for the powers that be to realise there is a huge mistrust of the police. And I say that as someone old enough to have been told as a child to seek out a Bobby on the beat if you needed help!

I think you did the right thing OP

All you have written is true but women's lack of trust in the police is their fault not ours so I'm not inclined to find solutions to a problem of their making.

They could have called for a female officer or administered a breathalyser with OP inside her car. The fact that they let her drive away after stopping her suggests they were not concerned about her driving or that she'd been drinking because if they were concerned then letting her drive away would have been very irresponsible.

My local police force literally advises to do this.

So YANBU

With all due respect they wouldn't have gotten me out my car just because they were 'convinced'. That's the whole point isn't it here isn't it? Ill intentioned police officers would be 'convinced' about anything to get a line female out their car.. My DF never trusted police and would have applauded OP, as I do. I wish more women had gumption!

Absolutely not. I don't blame any woman or POC for not trusting the police after scandal after scandal.

I think you got off lightly.

You were driving in the middle of the night and swerved.

They wanted to ensure you hadn't been drinking so obviously wouldn't want you to drive to the nearest police station.

They let you go on your way.

I wonder if you could have requested a female officer attend the scene if they needed you out of the car?

Yes they would. If they were convinced you were drunk and you refused a test when requested, you'd be arrested, and at that point you are getting out of your car one way or another whether you like it or not.