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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

871 replies

AngeloMysterioso · 02/03/2023 17:05

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole.

I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around.
Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me.

They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told.

Was I BU?

OP posts:
Pigletnotatwiglet · 02/03/2023 17:21

There were a couple of cases here about men dressing up as police and stopping lone women in an unmarked car. You did right OP. I probably would have got out because I thought you had to by law! Glad you put this up, I wouldn't get out now.

ChildminderMum · 02/03/2023 17:22

PuttingDownRoots · 02/03/2023 17:09

Other option is to offer to ring the police station with their badge numbers to verify the stop...

But if they suspect you of drink driving I can see why they wouldn't want you driving off!

How would that have helped?
I don't think she was doubting they were police officers.

AffIt · 02/03/2023 17:22

You did the right thing, OP. The police have lost a lot of the respect and trust they had - particularly from women - and I would do the same.

The only thing I might have added was that if they wanted me to get out of the car so desperately, I would want a female officer present and wouldn't do so until they had called one in.

Survey99 · 02/03/2023 17:23

You broke the law. They could have given you 4 penalty points and a fine up to £1000 for not providing a prelimary breath test at roadside when asked. (DR70 offence). It would have also increased your insurance costs.

If you want to take that risk, up to you. For two police officers in a marked vehicle I personally wouldn't think twice about getting out.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 02/03/2023 17:25

You were perfectly within your rights OP, and it seems the police were satisfied there was no need to take it any further, so it appears to be common sense all around.

For those saying 'I told them I would drive to xxxx'... if they genuinely believe you are under the influence they are not going to accept your offer to drive yourself anywhere. The premise of being tested down the station involves them taking you there in their own vehicle. If you stand your ground like OP, and can provide satisfactory answers to their questions, then it will invariably resolve itself, but if they are convinced you are driving while intoxicated, one way or another you are not going anywhere until you leave your vehicle and provide a breathalyser sample.

EtonMessy · 02/03/2023 17:26

Survey99 · 02/03/2023 17:23

You broke the law. They could have given you 4 penalty points and a fine up to £1000 for not providing a prelimary breath test at roadside when asked. (DR70 offence). It would have also increased your insurance costs.

If you want to take that risk, up to you. For two police officers in a marked vehicle I personally wouldn't think twice about getting out.

Have you not heard about Sarah Everard !!
Op you did the right thing.

gonnabeok · 02/03/2023 17:26

If you're not comfortable you did the right thing. If they don't smell alcohol on your breath and you refuse to do a breathalyser there's nothing they can do about it. If they do smell alcohol and you refuse to do a breathalyser you can be arrested for failing to provide a specimen of breath.

They shouldn't be phoning you afterwards. They allowed you to move on because they had no powers to detain you for a breathalyser. If this happens again always get their collar numbers.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 02/03/2023 17:26

If they suspected you of drinking, you offering to drive to the nearest police station is hardly a solution, is it?

Given that refusing to take a breath test can lead to arrest, I think I’d probably have taken the middle road of calling the station to verify their badge numbers and notify that I’d been stopped by them, and then done the test.

Plenanna · 02/03/2023 17:26

YANBU. Since the Sarah Everard case I would do the same. As long as you’re polite, answer their questions and comply with showing your ID, and you’re willing to drive to the nearest police station. The police must understand that lone women aren’t going to get out of their cars now.

Milamight · 02/03/2023 17:27

Erm no you were not right. If you had been drink driving it would have been extremely silly to let you drive to the station, what if youd caused an accident on the way? What if every drink driver stopped insisted on this? You should have gotten out and taken the breathlyser. If you were genuinely worried you should have called 101 to verify the officers first. Ridiculous behaviour.

PuttingDownRoots · 02/03/2023 17:27

Imagine this scenario...

Police stop a suspected drink driver
Agree to follow to police station
Driver causes accident and someone dies

Is that a reasonable scenario?

Ringing the Police station makes the situation official from the start.

jellycakeandicecream · 02/03/2023 17:28

Survey99 · 02/03/2023 17:23

You broke the law. They could have given you 4 penalty points and a fine up to £1000 for not providing a prelimary breath test at roadside when asked. (DR70 offence). It would have also increased your insurance costs.

If you want to take that risk, up to you. For two police officers in a marked vehicle I personally wouldn't think twice about getting out.

For clarity, refusing a breath test is an offence* BUT, and this is a big BUT only if you have also refused to give one at the police station. There is no sanction for refusing on the road side.

Unless you have a 'reasonable excuse', of which there is no legal definition.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 02/03/2023 17:28

If they don't smell alcohol on your breath and you refuse to do a breathalyser there's nothing they can do about it. If they do smell alcohol and you refuse to do a breathalyser you can be arrested for failing to provide a specimen of breath.

That’s really not the case. They don’t have to ‘smell alcohol’ on you to require a breath test:

Breath tests

The police can stop you at any time and ask you to take a breath test (‘breathalyse’ you) if:

they think you’ve been drinking
you’ve committed a traffic offence
you’ve been involved in a road traffic accident
If you refuse to take a breath test, or fail to supply a sample of breath and do not have a ‘reasonable excuse’, you can be arrested. A reasonable excuse could be a genuine physical or mental condition stopping you from giving a sample.

SpyouttheLand · 02/03/2023 17:29

Survey99 · 02/03/2023 17:23

You broke the law. They could have given you 4 penalty points and a fine up to £1000 for not providing a prelimary breath test at roadside when asked. (DR70 offence). It would have also increased your insurance costs.

If you want to take that risk, up to you. For two police officers in a marked vehicle I personally wouldn't think twice about getting out.

www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving-your-rights/breath-tests#:~:text=If%20you%20refuse%20to%20take,gives%20a%20result%20straight%20away.

If you refuse to take a breath test, or fail to supply a sample of breath and do not have a ‘reasonable excuse’, you can be arrested. A reasonable excuse could be a genuine physical or mental condition stopping you from giving a sample.

Being too anxious, in the light of recent events, to get out of the car in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, having offered instead to take the test at a nearby police station would be a perfectly reasonable excuse.

Exasperatednow · 02/03/2023 17:29

Personally I'd email the chief constable to complain about being told off. You offered a very reasonable alternative.

Barannca · 02/03/2023 17:29

Given how some male police officers have you were perfectly reasonable not to get out of the car and the police should be aware of that

Vlunken · 02/03/2023 17:30

Milamight · 02/03/2023 17:27

Erm no you were not right. If you had been drink driving it would have been extremely silly to let you drive to the station, what if youd caused an accident on the way? What if every drink driver stopped insisted on this? You should have gotten out and taken the breathlyser. If you were genuinely worried you should have called 101 to verify the officers first. Ridiculous behaviour.

She hadn't been drinking and knew she hadn't so of course she was right to offer to drive tonthe Station.

Mischance · 02/03/2023 17:31

No you were not BU at all. The breathalyser could have been done with you in the car. but I’ve just had a phone call from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told. And that is totally out of order.

A friends of mine's flat was commandeered by the police for a surveillance operation. One of the policemen who was alone with her in the flat tried it on with her and was reluctant to take no for an answer. She was put in a very difficult situation - she did not report it as it would have been her word against his.

Policemen or not, I would not have got out of the car under the circumstances you describe. If it had been a busy well-lit street, it might have been different.

You did the right thing.

TheySeeMeRowling · 02/03/2023 17:31

What did the officer say when they called you? Did you defend yourself and let them know that most women don’t feel safe? Was that officer a man or a woman?

TakeMe2Insanity · 02/03/2023 17:31

Well done OP. Definitely the right thing to do, considering the state of the Police in the UK atm.

I live very close to where Sarah Everad was taken from and think most of the population in South London would do the same.

MelchiorsMistress · 02/03/2023 17:31

The police need to accept that we no longer have good reason to trust them implicitly and that means they can no longer expect to do their job in the same way they used to.

You shouldn’t have been expected to get out of the car for two male officers in the middle of the night in the first place, and you certainly shouldn’t have had that phone cal afterwards. I think that’s worthy of a formal complaint because it’s not far off harassment.

jellycakeandicecream · 02/03/2023 17:32

Vlunken · 02/03/2023 17:30

She hadn't been drinking and knew she hadn't so of course she was right to offer to drive tonthe Station.

Show quote history

To be fair to the police officers involved... if they had lt her drive to the station and she was found to have been over the limit they would be reprimanded.

They didn't know she hadn't been drinking - hence asking for the test.

SnackyOnassis · 02/03/2023 17:32

Maybe it wasn't the legal thing to do but oh my goodness it was the right thing. This is a habit we should all get into and I'm very surprised at you getting a telling off from another officer the next day.

If it had been a formal caution or warning I'd make a complaint about that phone call given the general atmosphere around lone women's interactions with the police lately, but if it wasn't anything that will be recorded against you it's probably not worth the hassle.

Milamight · 02/03/2023 17:32

Vlunken · 02/03/2023 17:30

She hadn't been drinking and knew she hadn't so of course she was right to offer to drive tonthe Station.

Show quote history

She knew... but the officers didnt?! Which is what is important in that scenario. They obviously had concerns about her manner of driving. They could have insisted she provide a breath for a breath test or risk being arrested to be taken to custody to do so. And if failure to provide there, its a charge. She is lucky that they obviously spent longer gaging if she had been drinking. There is no requirement to allow a potential drink driver to drive themselves to a police station.

Survey99 · 02/03/2023 17:33

EtonMessy · 02/03/2023 17:26

Have you not heard about Sarah Everard !!
Op you did the right thing.

Show quote history

Of course I have, but I am not tarring all police officers with the same brush or using Sarahs death as an excuse for an over reaction. Especially when there are two officers, very obviously on duty, in a marked vehicle.

If we all did that for every occupation of people who committed offences we would never send our children to school (because teachers have murdered), hire a plumber (because tradesmen have murdered) etc etc etc

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