To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole.

I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around.
Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me.

They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told.

Was I BU?

And you think it’s only one step from calling someone a rapist to being one🤦‍♀️. I actually despair!

And you think it’s only one step from calling someone a rapist to being one🤦‍♀️. I actually despair!

But they were rapists, hiding in plain sight!

No, I despair. No one's saying people using the nickmames are rapists, but they knew what he was and not only did nothing, they found it funny. It's this that is such an ingrained problem with overall attitudes that you can't even see it when it's explained to you.

Again, obviously.

But a person can be breathalysed without them having to get out of a car.

The fact is that I and many people do not trust the police enough to be happy to leave the safety of their car at night without other people about.

The police should recognise this, have procedures in place to make lone women (and men) feel safe in such situations and not just get defensive that people are unwilling to risk their safety just because someone is wearing a uniform.

Because I asked him to hoover and change the bedding (I only have use of one arm at the moment.)

His words "you work from home so you should have all the housework done."

I said we are not in the 1950s.

And what is that supposed to mean?

‘Perhaps higher than we would like to think. Both Couzens and Carrick were known as offenders by their colleagues who've them "joking" nicknames like "The Rapist".

It doesn't exactly fill you with confidence, does it?
And you think it’s only one step from calling someone a rapist to being one🤦‍♀️. I actually despair!’

they were actually rapist though, weren’t they. Hilarious fucking nickname,
Rapist or no rapist. Bants, innit.

If you openly acknowledge that one of your work colleagues is a rapist and do nothing about it, are you an accessory to a future rape carried out by the rapist?

Does the answer to the above question change if you are both police officers?

Er yes, I was being tongue-in-cheek.

Unfortunately them actually being real police officers doesn’t necessarily make
it safe.

Our police force had 31 officers under active investigation they said recently. That's somewhat concerning.

Friends son police officer in West Yorkshire asked and got a transfer recently because the area he worked in the criminals were untouchable .

It's depressing but not surprising

Exactly! It's the ingrained culture that seems to be normal in policing.
I don't how the police are going to gain trust with women again but it is for women to fix.
Anyone who doesn't understand where these fears have come from must have been living under a rock.

• IS NOT FOR WOMEN TO FIX.

Not so long ago,I would have said YABU. But now,with women's trust in the police at an all-time low, following the Wayne Couzens and David Carrick cases,I would say no,YANBU.

Take a break.
Take all day
Leave your husband ( I won’t prefer with a ‘d’ ) to their own grime.

(that was badly worded I wanted to say Wolow in their own grime, but how do you spell wolow, it’s not in the dictionary. If anyone here knows, I could do with an English lesson )

**

Unless they are part of the police force or an advisory body of course
Lets hope their are some

You want women to not worry about men NNed The Rapist, because it doesn't mean they are. Screams of NAMALT.

No smoke without fire etc etc. We know NAMALT, but we don't know which ones are. So you can judge women for taking heed when encountering men from a profession where NNs like that (and common misogyny) are the norm, but if you want us to not assume men are the problem, give us evidence to back that theory up.

So yesterday you were ranting about people being mean about lovely police officers like DH and today it turns out he's as misogynistic as the rest of them?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. How did you not know you were living with a misogynist? This is exactly the problem, they have people who really should know better defending them, barely noticing because it's so normalised.

I reported my post to mnhq to ask if they could arrange anything. I’ve had an email saying they will discuss it and what would be helpful. People have said a webchat? What would need to be covered?

People have said a webchat? What would need to be covered?

thanks for asking them

What i would like is clear, consistent advice for women who find themselves in OPs position. What do they recommend we do - and they should bear in mind that lots of women don't trust the police, so "get out of the car and do what they say" won't wash.

What to do if they want to brethelyse you and you don't want to get out of the car - is it allowed to do it through the window? (I've been brethelysed once, had an accident, was driving and had been to an event with DH who was absolutely drunk. The police smelled alcohol as soon as i got out of the car and immediately tested me. IIRC he had to hold it while i could hold it and blow. But this isn't UK so not sure of protocol there)

What if you have a dashcam that can be turned towards yourself to film the interaction with the police - is that OK?

Bodycams - several people here mentioned the police wear bodycams. Given lots of reports in the papers contain things like "bodycam evidence couldn't be used as they were defective" or whatever - how can we know if their bodycams are a) switched on and b) working? Do they automatically transmit to a cloud or are they on some kind of storage and need to be downloaded?

What are the police doing to counter the culture of the WhatsApp groups and knowing that some are dodgy (and have nicknames like "The Rapist")?

I think something about the expectation that officers report unacceptable behaviour of colleagues and the sanction for not doing so.

eg it's a criminal offence not to report concerns about colleagues in school, should that be the case for police officers?

Schools also need a system for and monitoring low level concerns so if Mr X says something off to or about one girl, he might get "professional advice", but if he does it again there'll be a clear record that it's not the first time. The police have clearly not been doing this.

Also the protection in place for officers who do make reports.

We've heard lots about how imporvement in vetting and training is needed, but what has actually been done? What form does the training take, who's delivering it, how many officers have had it?

There was only one man and I agreed to go to station but I was then arrested and out in his van while we waited for another hour for another officer to show up then we went to station. By which point I was going to late for work, my phone was dead and I was really upset so trying to blow into the machine was challenge to say the least. Still I could be looking at 6 months ban which will be horrible for trying to do school run and work. All because I refused to step out of the vehicle

Why ?

Good for you @AngeloMysterioso I hope I'd be as assertive if it happened to me.