To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole.

I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around.
Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me.

They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told.

Was I BU?

'I just don't think every man is a predator, police or not.'

Nor do I. But how do we tell which ones? And given how many predators seek out positions of authority - like police or teaching or coaching sport etc - trusting someone in authority because of their position, is quite frankly the last thing women should do.

I would love some clarity on this. I remember my dad telling me not to stop for police at night if it didn’t feel safe, that was in the 1980s.

I have young adult daughters who regularly have to drive country roads alone at night and I want to be able to give them the right advice on this.

I wonder I if @mnhq can help with it? Can they interview a senior officer or anything? It’s so important that we can be safe but without being arrested for failing to comply.

I have had bad experiences with police when I was the victim. I got panic attacks whenever I had to contact them because of the treatment I got from them. I would definitely panic in OP situation.

Have you never experienced someone feeling defensive about something and reacting by going on the offensive? Happens here all the time when someone criticises a group/profession.

This is a good idea re web chat

I’m not sure they see tags in posts though, although someone might be reading anyway

Yep. But if you agree this behaviour involved going on the offensive, let's say that specifically.

Yes, given the recent publicity, the police must know some women are going to be nervous. That's not saying all officers are a risk but all officers fell like a potential risk and as the whole point of the police is to make people feel safe, they must surely need a process to deal with this.

It must be very frustrating as a good officer to be "tarred with the same brush" but unfortunately we know it's not a tiny minority and we also know that in many of these cases other officers knew things weren't right and still nothing was done.

If the response from colleagues was "what lovely man and competent officer Dave, surely not?" that would be one thing, but it's not. We've discovered colleagues think it's funny to use the nickname Rapist and that they have WhatsApp groups to share misogyny. That officers with multiple complaints against them have been allowed to continue in post. It's really not isolated cases and insisting that it is doesn't help women or the good officers.

I strongly suspect this thread is not true, but there are important issues to be discussed. We can't hide from them.

You got lucky I did something similar and then they charged me with failure to provide. When I did eventually get to the police station I was so anxious I couldn’t blow into the machine long enough to give a reading. I’d blew my tire out and was sitting in my car ringing for help. My solicitor said since I wasn’t driving at the time I should receive 10 points on my licence it’s been very stressful.

Just spoke with my senior MET officer mate, a woman.
She says yes they can stop you for any reason, NO you do not need to exit the car to be breathalyzed, NO she wouldn't have got out of the car either under those circumstances - they can test you in the car and ask for ID.
but the officers would have been able to use reasonable force to take you out of the car if they decided it was a stop or search - but they would have needed good reason - e.g. a crime has been committed nearby and you or your car fit the description, they had reason to believe you were carrying drugs, or similar

She also reckoned offering to go to the station was a good idea and if they genuinely had any concerns they would have either escorted you there or made an arrest suspecting that you were under the influence and refusing a breathlyzer but dragging woman to the station for swerving a pot hole would have caused a lot of paperwork and they would have been told they were time wasting.

They reported the stop because they're supposed to, though don't always, but prob realised afterwards that YOU might contact the station so they covered their arses accordingly which is why you got a call.

I’ve reported my post to ask them

You got lucky I did something similar and then they charged me with failure to provide

Exactly. Which is why 90% of the advice on this thread is terrible.

You don't get an option whether or not to comply with the (lawful) instructions of a uniformed police officer. You can be arrested if you don't, so it doesn't make sense to refuse, even if you are frightened, because being arrested will put you in a more vulnerable position.

I would rather be charged than be raped and murdered.

I think it would be a great idea for MN to have a webchat with, say, a police officer and someone from Citizens' Advice, to get rights and responsibilities clarified.

That’s so true I was put in a van on a country road with one male officer took to the the police station by this point I was quite upset and anxious they gave me once chance to blow and it wasn’t long enough for a reading so failure to provide and put in a cell I was mortified.

This was at 6am on my way to work I hadn’t drank the night before or anything. So now I’m a criminal because I didn’t want to get out on a country lane with a male officer. I really didn’t want to get out either. They had no reason to suspect alcohol I was totally normal but yeah you can land in a world of trouble and it’s costing £800 for a solicitor to speak on my behalf at court. The whole situation uoset me so much I took two weeks off work I kept crying about it. So I probably wouldn’t recommend this.

Exactly. Which is why 90% of the advice on this thread is terrible.

this thread is offering nothing in the way of terrible advice (pretty much). The thread is full of people saying "yep, i would have done the same" or "i have done the same".

For those who don't understand or don't want to understand what posters like me are saying: i personally wouldn't get out of the car. I would ask for warrant cards or some ID. I would probably start filming if i got the impression in any way it might go badly. I would be polite.

I was in the Army - i know what bunches of blokes in uniform can be like. I also know how hard it is to give any indication you don't agree with them. But i expect fellow officers of people called "the rapist" to highlight that to senior officers. for starters.

Nor do I, but I wouldn't risk being alone in the dark in a lonely place with two unknown men, whether they were in uniform or not.

Not just one man - there was David Carrick, too - and God alone knows how many others are out there.

We just don't know - and for those who say we're paranoid, even if it IS only one man, what if it's the one stopping you?

Well just like every walk of life it’s never going to be zero is it? It is a very small number. If you did anything would you consider a 0.3% risk (when weighed up against the need for police to have these powers for the wider justice system and safety of the public) low?and remember, whilst abhorrent crimes this number will include those who were victim specific and don’t pose a threat to the wider public.

yes those officers who have committed crimes need to be weeded out, The Met are now clearly working hard on this - should it have been done before, yes. But people shouldn’t lose sight of the fact a vast vast majority of police are there to help, they work extremely hard in very difficult circumstances, requiring force at times, compassion at others. Are they perfect, no, they are human, point to any profession, healthcare, social work, accountants there will be people who act only in their interests often resulting in harm, but these are a tiny minority.

Theres a clear agenda here from some posters to keep stirring anti police rhetoric. Make no mistake that their purpose is to undermine the police. Many police do this voluntarily, regular officers starting salary is below nurses. What happens if they get so pissed off by being labelled rapists, misogynists etc and they leave, police are massively under resourced, women are often the victims of crime, defunding the police or whatever these people are after ultimately is only going to hurt women disproportionately. What about a domestic abuse victim who is now put off phoning the police because of comments like those on this thread, when she ends up dead, no doubt you’ll blame the police for that too.

Consider who is playing on these sad cases for their own agenda. People on here aren’t always as they seem,

Yes this is where I am with it, I’m not sure about the op but it’s a good point for discussion.

I’d like to know rights and responsibilities.

I also think what happened to Sarah Everard is so truly horrific - as the judge said when sentencing - and subsequent stories coming out we could do with some dialogue and clarification.

'You got lucky I did something similar and then they charged me with failure to provide'

Provide in while sitting in your car. Explain that you don't feel safe getting out of your car at 2am in the middle of nowhere wit 2 men. You don't need to get out of your car to take a breathalyzer, AND you can go straight to th station and give a more accurate one there anyway.

If it was known that 0.3% of UK teachers (=c.1700) were known sex offenders, would that be OK? The risk is tiny after all.

Dismissing peoples real concerns by stating pp have an agenda against the police is not helpful, and added to your continued dismissal of 800+ sex offending police in the Met, on a mostly female forum is actually making me angry.

We have good reason to be nervous around SOME police. Just as we have good reason to be nervous round SOME men who are not police. Your argument is exactly the same as the not all men argument and my answer is exactly the same - not all police but how do we know which, so I will be nervous around all if the situation has the potential to danger me.

Surely the "agenda" is to clean up the police forces and restore public trust. Why wouldn't good officers would support that?

There's also the problem of the much greater number who are not themselves sex offenders but do nothing about the ones on their midst and are often more interested in shutting down criticism and pretending the problem doesn't exist than actually tackling it. A police officer doesn't have to have raped anyone to be a clear part of the problem.

*wouldn't...

Yes, I actually think this is a far bigger issue. How can it be Ok for an officer to be known as Rapist? Why is that funny? Whether or not colleagues believed it to be true, it shows pure misogyny.