To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole.

I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around.
Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me.

They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told.

Was I BU?

I just don't think every man is a predator, police or not.

FFS nor do i. Nor do most people. But how can we tell which ones are? we can't. Same way we don't know if any of the people who want to be scoutmasters are paedophiles - so they all do a DRB check.

I think it's worth following up in writing and possibly cc-ing the Met to say that basically you've list trust in the force and would like to see male/female pairings, especially at night.

I was once stopped as a 19 year old coming home from a boyfriends house at 2am (because it wasnt a sleepover!) And was stopped by police asking what I was doing. My driving was fine, they literally just stopped me because I was out at night. I bet they didnt stop every bloke driving home from a night shift.

And the bloke was so rude to me and I felt so vulnerable. It was just unexpected and unnecessary. I'd never speak to someone at work like that and to do it to a young lone female without much life experience I felt like he was showing off to the woman who said nothing. Horrible experience. As an adult I'd have reported him.

If it was 2am, there were no other cars around, I'd have listened to my gut. If I felt safe, I'd have got out. If for any reason I felt vulnerable, I wouldn't have. If they weren't happy with me driving to the station, I'd have kept the doors locked, looked up the police station number on my phone, called and asked for a female police officer to be sent over, and for confirmation of her badge number so I could check it on arrival.

I grew up with the advice of the Suzy Lamplugh Trust to 'trust your instincts.'

Women are conditioned to do things they don't want to do. We're brought up as people pleasers who put everyone else first. But when it comes to my personal safety, I listen to myself and I put myself first. If I feel threatened, I get the hell out of there.

There have been a few occasions where I've effectively had to run away and get help, and I think listening to my instincts on those occasions probably saved me from something terrible. It doesn't happen very often (thankfully), but when I'm in a dangerous situation and my inner alarm goes off, I don't stay put for fear of offending someone, I prioritise myself and I get myself out of that situation.

After Wayne Couzens, although I don't not trust the police, I treat all male police officers like any other man - a potential threat to be assessed. They don't get assumed blanket trust; they have to earn it.

This.

My DH is a Policeman. He goes out in all weathers, has days off cancelled, works 12 to sometimes 15 hour days, Xmas day, NYE.

well, that is the nature of the job and it is not as if it is unknown to people who join.

But ask him this: what does he expect lone women to do? what is the suggestion the police make? because as you and your husband (who may be perfectly lovely, but i don't know him so if he stopped me when i was alone, in the night, miles from anywhere? i wouldn't get out of the car either) know - the police have advised women who aren't sure to flag down a bus ffs.

And all sympathy with the good and lovely officers: the police are under funded and I'd like to see that rectified. But they also have sent their own reputation underground, and i would like suggestions from them as to how we can all get past this.

And that doesn't include their relatives or colleagues berating women who are being cautious.

Care homes are just whataboutery, but see above re funding because it applies to them too.

Two uniformed officers in a tracked and fully liveried, lit up police car, I wouldn't hesitate to get out.

One officer in a plain car with lights in the grill, I'd think twice.

Off duty police officer out of uniform, I'd keep driving.

My police friend hands out breathalysers at parties so people know if they are safe to drive. The type that are disposable and cheap as chips.

Given what you've written, they were completely justified in pulling you over for suspected drink driving and am glad they did.

But you were also fully justified for refusing to exit your car.

From their perspective, seeing a car approach and veering gently across the road and back is typical of drunk driving behaviour. Obviously they can't see the pothole behind you as you say they were a fair distance ahead. Potholes or not, we all want drunk drivers off the road and they clearly established you weren't, so let you go.

Afaic the phone call was just them being defensive. Understandable perhaps, given most of us would be defensive of being tarred by a big brush.

You’re still using this vague “many”. It’s a waving the hand in a tough direction. The numbers I found suggest 0.3% of the met were on restricted duties due to accusations of a sexual nature.

it's 800 in the Met - and they're not on restricted duties because that would leave them with nobody to roster on.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64293158

"We haven't applied the same sense of ruthlessness to guarding our own integrity that we routinely apply to confronting criminals."

The Met said a total of 1,633 cases of alleged sexual offences or domestic violence involving 1,071 officers and other staff were being reviewed from the last 10 years to make sure the appropriate decisions were made.

Sometimes civil disobedience is required. This concept isn't exactly of an alien nature to many women and other groups who are often targeted by the police for no reason. There is a reason that black families have The Talk when their children are growing up.

So what do we do? It is clear that there are occasions when women (and others) don't want to take the risk of getting out of their car (for eg) at night if stopped by the police. It is up to the police to provide guidance to their officers and to the public on what to do on these occasions. (and not "if you're stopped by a single plain clothed cop to flag down a bus")

It is also up to the police to be seen to be having a proper, root and branch, investigation of its own culture. Not much has changed i think since Stephen Lawrence in many respects. (although i do think some things have changed)

As for "oh when you need them you'll call" well, yes. Because they are the police. So from the example upthread, i can choose between confronting an intruder in my own house (highly inadvisable) or calling the police. I'll call the police and hope they'll do their job. And not, in follow up visits, try to hit on me (also a recorded phenomenon)

I'm glad the police are there. I'm furious that so many have been cut from their numbers and that they're underfunded. This is part of the reason they were until recently still recruiting people without ever having actually met them in person. (gosh i hope they have stopped that).

In essense: most police are perfectly fab and go above and beyond and are stretched beyond belief. Unfortunately they don't get a visible halo so we can tell who they are. In a perfect world the missing police officers will be replaced (with robust recruiting processes) and their funding will be raised to more realistic levels.

Thisis all part of the problem! How is that OK? They might be cheap, but they're not his and that's stealing from taxpayers. Yet he appears to have no qualms at all about doing it publically.

Where are the standards? I wouldn't take so much as an envelope from work and if it was found I was doing it regularly, I'd be disciplined.

I don't not trust the police, I treat all male police officers like any other man - a potential threat to be assessed. They don't get assumed blanket trust

I think this is a good way of putting it. Male police officers haven't suddenly become more of a risk to women; we have just woken up to the fact that - as with any other group of men - we have to be on our guard against the minority who are predatory. And the revelations that police are being recruited without DBS checks, and of men with a history of sexual violence being allowed to remain in the force, have reinforced this.

Having said all that, as I have posted above, if you are afraid of the police who stop you on suspicion of drink driving, do not refuse to give a breathalyser test because, if you do that, they can arrest you - which will leave you more vulnerable.

See your bias has made you assume these cheap disposable ones belong to the police.
My non bias made me assume they are the cheap disposable ones anybody can buy out of their own money, so this person is helping people out of the goodness of their heart.
Wonder which one of us or right🧐

I wonder...

You did the right thing. Women can't trust the UK police anymore. You offered to go to the station, if they had any real concerns they would have taken you up on that.

I would have got our for a female officer, but not a male one. They can breathalyse you in your car, so I would ring the station and report this.
Why did you need to get out of the car?

'I don't not trust the police, I treat all male police officers like any other man - a potential threat to be assessed. They don't get assumed blanket trust'

We tell our children not to automatically trust police or anyone else in uniform. We tell them to seek help by asking a woman over a man of any kind, by going into a shop if there is one. We tell them that if the police stop them for anything they are to call us, they are not to go with that officer, and no officer with genuine reasons for talking to them would prevent them from calling us.

The police in this country have repeatedly abused the trust of women, from how they treat victims of DV and sexual abuse or attacks, and with how they committed crimes against women themselves. Until something changes police forces cannot expect the trust and respect of women.

You keep quoting 0.3% as if that’s a tiny number. It’s not. This is the police, who we have to trust at some of our lowest times as well as if they pull us over by a road. Yet 0.3% of one force are accused of sexual crimes. How can any female trust that the male policeman they are dealing with is not a sexual offender?

I don’t know the numbers at the Met but I think someone upthread said that’s 800 officers. How can you pretend that 800 is not a huge number of police we can’t be safe with, and that’s only the ones under investigation. How many others are there?

Please stop quoting this as a low figure, it’s a bloody scary figure.

'My DH is a Policeman. He goes out in all weathers, has days off cancelled, works 12 to sometimes 15 hour days, Xmas day, NYE.'

Good for him. Part of the job obvs, just as being a paramedic, firefighter etc is

I still would not get out of a car at night at 2am if he stopped me. Ask him if he knows of any 'bad' behavior from fellow officers. Anyone who'd behaved inappropriately with women, whether their fellow officers or not. Has he ever had a word? Pulled them up? Reported them?
Is there an officer he knows is a bit of a liability? A bit rough with people? A bit racist? Would rather not work alongside of? Has he ever done anything about them?
Or does he just follow the code, and protect the with his silence cos it's the 'hardest job in the world' etc?

'My DH is a Policeman. He goes out in all weathers, has days off cancelled, works 12 to sometimes 15 hour days, Xmas day, NYE

I’m sure he works hard and that is good but what would he say about a situation as the op describes?

Can it just be passed through window instead

I take the point in pp about evidence if needed but many are breathalysed in car already aren’t they?

Afaic the phone call was just them being defensive.

It's literally them going on the offensive. The matter had been resolved and then they rang up to tell the OP she was in the wrong.

Is basically what I'm saying.

This happened to me 6 years ago, I was quite young and had never been pulled over by the police however it was broad daylight and i did get out the car but felt totally uneasy about it and felt the officers were heavy handed.

My rear number plate had fallen off ( i had no idea so must have happened whilst i was driving that day) I had my 2 week old baby and my 1 year old toddler in the car.

I was pulled over and 2 male officers came up and started looking around my car, they asked me to get out which i did, then asked me to come into the back of the police car with them. I was taken aback and said something like "oh i have my kids in the car". He said the other officer will standby my car and led me to the back of the police car.

He asked me all sorts of questions, i kept apologizing and saying my number plate must be on this stretch of road because the car had it the night before.

He let me off with a warning but was quite rude about it all, really shook me up.

I thought it was really heavy handed for a missing rear number plate.

I would not get out of my car for the police on my own in that situation.

These are not the same as those which need to be used in road side tests🤦‍♀️

Mmm, that's going on the offensive though.