To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole.

I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around.
Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me.

They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told.

Was I BU?

I suppose they could always have called a female cop to join you, if they really suspected you of drink driving.

Do you know who the police officer was who rang you? I'd be tempted to make a complaint about that tbh. TBH they should have offered the option of having a female PC come out to you at the time, if they wanted to pursue it. I'm struggling to see how they really didn't get your point. You would need to have been living under a rock not to realise the police reputation is at an all time low.

Cross post @LuckyThatMyBreastsAreSmallAndHumble

They won't need to 'drag you out by your hair', because by that point you'll be under arrest, and officers are trained in ways to restrain people and affect an arrest that don't involve dragging people around by their hair.

They'll also have been acting entirely within the law, so whether you record it is neither here nor there, in fact, they'll likely thank you for it because it will corroborate their own bodycam footage.

Amazing the number of people who think they are totally above the law, and that refusing to comply with police will just result in them shrugging and moving on.

How the hell would you know “the risk for these two would have been almost non-existent” @OMG12? You do know multiple male police officers have been found to have used their ID and uniforms to entrap, rape and murder women don’t you?

Again, how on earth would you know “they’ll also have been acting totally within the law”??! I see coppers speeding, parking on double yellows etc all the time. Never mind the violent crimes committed regularly by police. Surely the whole “within the law” thing is exactly the problem - the police don’t stick within it? Your attitude baffles me. You’re either police yourself or you’ve been living under a rock for the past several years.

you did the right hing.

and this from a pp:
"If I were you @AngeloMysterioso I would be contacting the chief constable to find out why you were taken to task on the phone for protecting yourself."

Hope you told the policeman that phoned you that you would get out your car when they stop employing rapists and murderers as policemen.

The phonecall today felt mostly patronising to be honest, basically repeating what a few PPs have said about how refusing to take a breathalyser could have resulted in my being arrested, they were just trying to do their jobs etc etc- at this point I did get a bit shirty and said my main concern was for my own safety and I wasn’t going to compromise that to make anyone else’s life a bit easier.

are you taking this further, OP?

Amazing the number of people who think they are totally above the law, and that refusing to comply with police will just result in them shrugging and moving on.

you're not really understanding what people are writing i suspect. I will comply with the police right up to the point i consider my safety might be at risk. And as a lone woman at night, that will be pretty much any time a cop asks me to get out of my car. As i described previously.

The police are welcome to not consider themselves above the law either. They can work out how to approach lone women at night (and POC at any time, tbh) that doesn't make people want to lock themselves in their cars to be safe from them. Time for a lot more introspection on the part of the police.

And everyone who is getting all huffy and puffy about us anarchists who are challenging the lovely fluffy police can have a long hard think about why we might have that attitude.

You did completely right! I’d go down to the station, ask to speak to the one who called me and ask him how much time he’s put into thinking about how to ensure the police are safe and not murdering rapists, and is it as much time as he’s spent on the phone criticising women for observing basic safety protocols given we can most of us read and he should be well aware of the horrific stuff we have read about and how endemic it is in the police force?

Yep I agree your were totally in the right. They’re just going to need more female officers.

YANBU.

I can without a shadow of a doubt say I would have got out the car though.

No, I wouldn't get out either.

We are talking about a specific situation where the police have stopped someone they have reasonable belief is driving while intoxicated.

They are acting totally within the law to then arrest that person if they refuse to cooperate to the extent that they will neither provide a roadside sample, or leave their vehicle to provide a sample at the station.

The law is not determined by 'my attitude'.

The problem here is the the PP needed to name drop and quote the law to the actual police. The police clearly weren’t doing there job properly.

We had guards talking and joking about raping a women in custody who was arrested at the Mayo pipeline protests whilst she was alone in the car with them, which she taped. That bad enough.
Numerous examples of guards coercing vulnerable women into sex and being disciplined. The Ian Bailey in Cork case revealed how they operate with vulnerable women in sick detail. Drugs squad in Midlands taking freebees from sex workers under threat, it goes on and on and on. Our police are no better unfortunately.

You explained the swerve, offered to drive to the nearest police station and clearly engaged with them coherently and I'm sure, if required, you could have provided proof of where you were coming from and where you were headed. Also, it's not necessary to have to get out of a car to take a breathalyser test.

The Police need to understand that lots of people do not trust them.

Ah so let me get this right, two policemen who have been randomly partnered up that night are driving round in a police car (and therefore on duty) wearing body cans are likely both rapists!!! Who are having their movements monitored via their radios, who have pulled over someone for dangerous driving. Yes I would say The risk is very small.

I suggested ways this situation could have been made even safer.

FWIW the reason the main reason police will ask you to leave the vehicle while they carry out a roadside test is because the officer themselves retains control of the device in order to ensure a valid sample is provided. They can't guarantee you won't tamper with the device, or that you will use it correctly if they pass it to you through your car window.

There are other reasons why it's common practice for you to leave the vehicle, but for the most part its to ensure the test is carried out legally, accurately, and in a way that can't be challenged if the result is submitted in evidence.

I'm ex police staff (28 years in the job) and l worked shifts where l finished work at midnight.
I've never been pulled over, but if l was l'd do exactly what you did.
Quite frankly l'd be making an issue about being called back and remonstrated with, pointing out the reasons why women feel unsafe alone, particularly at night, with two men. Regardless of whether they're in uniform in a marked police car.
The words 'Sarah Everard' and 'Wayne Couzens' should be enough without further explanation.
Sarah Everard 'did as she was told'. And look how that ended.

No you were not being unreasonable….exactly what I would have done….well done you!!

Amazing the number of people who think they are totally above the law,

Amazing the number of police officers who have been behaving outside the law - that's what makes women afraid to trust them.

Are there really so few of us who would have got out of the car without thinking anything of it? Or do these people just not bother posting? So depressing...

i would really love to know if all the police apologists on here are police or related to police or just don't read the news.

If you wear the uniform, you have to be beyond reproach, better than everyone else, not a dickhead on a power trip.

100% YANBU and I would write and complain about the officer who phone you up and told you off, very poor form! (He would have got quite a blistering non sweary mouthful from me!)