To think this woman should not be put in prison?

[Nooyoiknooyoik]

Bizarre and very unfair Link

Well, like I told the other person who knows better than everyone who was in court: contact Ms Moore. If you know something they all missed to show it was a wrongful conviction, tell her. She can do something about it.

MichelleScarn · Today 21:14
@ScrollingLeaves (and not expecting you to know this!) So if the lawyer is attempting to appeal on account of lack capacity/diminished responsibility, am assuming they will not be expecting AG to be released back to the community as she's a risk to safety of the public?

You are right, I don’t know something like that in an informed way. But no, I wouldn’t have expected AG to be released into the public if she does have diminished capacity/diminished responsibility.

I would expect her to go to some sort of care home, with extra assessments as to her future. I presume if she goes to prison though she will come out and carry on being belligerent etc except maybe more so.

That narrow path, with the kerb so near a very busy road, looks very dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians to use together.

I know what I saw in the famous video you all show. And It says she was told to leave which she did.

Is this still going! Same posters still victim blaming Celia, rather than accepting that Aorial had in fact assaulted Celia and caused her death. It's disgusting.

Honestly, the judge and jury have made their decision, and they know more about this than us. Doesn't matter how many times people try to use AG's cerebral palsy as a mitigating factor, she has been convicted and that's that.

dawngreen· Today 21:45
I know what I saw in the famous video you all show
And It says she was told to leave which she did.

Please would you explain ,‘it says she was told to leave?’

Who told whom to leave?

A member of the public who arrived at the scene told AG to leave

Most people can see the swipe on the video, even posters who initially thought otherwise.

An independent witness also saw it in person.

Auriol Grey did not attempt to contest the accusation that she swiped at Celia.

That she swiped at Celia is an uncontested fact of the case.

Was she also told to carry on and do her grocery shopping at Sainsbury's and then to later lie to the police? Did that passerby who you allege told her to leave before emergency services arrived also tell her to show zero remorse for this cyclist's death or the trauma inflicted on the driver of the car who hit her?

And presumably the passer-by didn’t know that AG had caused the accident, they will
have thought that she was a by-stander who had no reason to hang around. She OTOH obviously knew very well what had happened and that she should stay around.

She understood enough to lie to the police when they found her.

She didn't have to leave just because a random stranger told her to. The stranger obviously didn't want her to be incriminated. If she was concerned she would have insisted on staying.

'Famous' video? You mean the evidence?

Even if certain people are right and it was never ever a shared pathway, it definitely is now, after this horrible event. So whatever the danger was deemed to be, it wasn't cyclists on the pavement.

And I highly doubt that police/courts will want this to be allowed to stand as acceptable. Is leaving the scene of an accident you caused not an additional charge?
I can't imagine 'sorry officer it was upsetting to see my actions resulted in someone dying, so I put myself first and left the scene'
Although that would indicate some remorse which AG still hasn't shown I believe.

I was answering the question the other poster asked.

The leaving the scene of an accident being an offence is for drivers isn't it?

When an elderly person I know was very advanced with dementia she was doing things like running into the middle of a very busy A road proclaiming she was pregnant (she was in her 80s) and that her dead husband had risen from the dead, annoying the police by constantly phoning and asking them to remove the little men who were living in her loft and wasting away as she imagined she had eaten. No one would help, social workers, psychiatrist, even the hospital when she would be taken in would discharge her, on one occasion on a Sunday night in February sending a sick emaciated woman back to a cold house with no food. She was dropped off by a taxi the hospital booked.

Don't hold your breath about AG getting any level of care however much she might need it.

And accidently causing someone's death is classed as manslaughter unless its a genuine accident and screaming get off the fucking pavement is an intentional act not an accident

Was she deemed to have capacity? Am very surprised that she would be such a risk to herself and others and consistently be discharged like that. In my trust area this would be a significant safeguarding error and likely to end up in a serious case review. Am assuming no one has or has applied for any powers?

A lot of people don't understand what manslaughter is. They think it's a choice between murder (intentional) and accident and that the concept of manslaughter doesn't really exist.

It does, and this is it.

@MichelleScarn the problem with capacity, especially with dementia and other similar conditions is that people don’t have it or not. If they are deemed to have capacity when they are being given the test they have it, but then can ‘lose’ it half an hour later.

Well aware of that re capacity, but several admissions of the nature in the above post would definitely flag at least 'Vulnerable Adult' discussion where we are even if deemed to have capacity, and would have some form of MDT discussion, not just discharging home like here, but understand different trusts do things differently!

I can understand people being moved away as that motorist, who had her 2 year old in the car was screaming with the body of Mrs Ward having been thrown onto her car.

When you read the judges sentencing remarks he refers to the initial police interviews a lot. I used to work for a company that supported disabled adults. I wonder if due to cuts and the policy of people living independently whether reports on her were as up to date as they could have been. Did she have a support worker or just the duty solicitor at those interviews. The fact that it went to a retrial indicates it's not clear cut.

She's represented by Ms Moore from 5 Paper Buildings a well known Chambers so has experienced advice. But we don't know when she was instructed to represent AG. Her appeal on the day of sentencing and request for bail was denied. Of course if she's allowed an appeal and she leaves prison her sentence could be increased.

I'm in no doubt that AG by walking from the railings towards the kerb was instrumental in forcing Mrs Ward to move towards the kerb where her bike could have bounced off the pavement slightly resulting in her being thrown and so she's guilty. But I don't think this is a case for a prison sentence.

I don't think this is a case for a prison sentence.

It's a conviction of manslaughter.

Law is bound by what is laid out and what has gone before. She was convicted of manslaughter. She has to have a custodial sentence. The sentencing guidelines say so.

If the judge didn’t send her to prison, which would be appealed by the prosecution and rightly so, then there would have been case law laid out that would make it arguable for other people convicted of manslaughter to face non-custodial sentences.

I’m fairy sure you’d feel extremely aggrieved if (taking a real case) the man who was convicted of manslaughter of his baby son by shaking him to death, wasn’t put into prison because his defence managed to argue, successfully, that another person convicted of manslaughter didn’t so he shouldn’t.

Interesting how different Judges have different interpretations of what a pavement is for.

District Judge Leo Pyle said: "Pavements are for pedestrians and people in wheelchairs or infants in prams.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-64892358