To feel stressed at being left behind our friendship group

[Feelinadequate23]

DH and I are part of a really close friendship group from uni (where we met). We are all mid-thirties now so have been friends for 15 or so years and we spend a fair amount of time with this group.

At uni we all felt on the same level financially as we all had part time jobs but also all had some financial support from our parents. Then in our twenties we still felt pretty similar, as we all got professional jobs, rented for a bit and then bought 2 bed places with our other halves. DH and I bought in the cheapest place out of the group but we had a nice garden and were near a really fun pub we all used to hang out at, so we didn’t feel like the poor relations, even though we were in the least desirable area.

Then suddenly around the age of 30, it was like everyone else in the friendship group catapulted into a financial level above us out of nowhere. We all got married and had kids so people started moving out of starter homes into family homes. DH and I just upgraded to a 3 bed semi in the same area we were in, whereas everyone else bought really big houses with 4/5 bedrooms, 2/3 bathrooms and an extra study, all in very fancy areas. They’re now all suddenly talking about sending their kids to private primary school, whereas we hadn’t even considered doing that.

It’s starting to get us down as when we meet up it’s like they’re all speaking a different language to us (discussing which room to give to their nanny!) and their ideas of what’s normal are just so different to ours now. We suggested doing a group holiday with kids and were about to suggest a uk holiday cottage type trip, but somehow the conversation turned into them all planning a ski trip, which would mean we couldn’t afford any other trips that year.

The annoying thing is, we’re pretty sure we earn the most out of all the couples, so this money must be coming from their parents - I suspect they were all given hefty deposits and they also all get free holidays with family each year. It’s making us feel really inadequate and also like we can’t hang out with them so much anymore as we can’t join in a lot of the conversations and can’t afford to do some of the things they suggest. It’s very depressing when we work in stressful long hour corporate jobs and they all do nice 9-5s, working in charities and PR firms. But these are our closest friends so we don’t want to lose them.

Considering taking on even more stressful jobs to try to keep up with their lifestyle (which to be fair is very nice and we would love to be able to live like that). AWBU?

It sounds tough for you OP but tbh you sound way too invested in these friendships. These people do not define you. Just because you've known them 15 years does not mean you need to all have the same lifestyle and keep up with them when it comes to holidays, schools ..even changing jobs? Sounds exhausting!
I've got lots of friends who are richer than me ,some are poorer...but it doesn't matter! I don't even think about what we all earn. Not to sound all new age hippy but we like each other for who we are not how much money we have in the bank. You've clearly spent too much time thinking about how much they earn...who does this? Doesn't sound healthy for you.
I think you need to be honest and say you can't afford expensive ski holidays/days out and suggest an alternative. If they don't like it, it might be in your best interests to step back a bit from this group.
There are people out there who won't judge you on what you earn, the house you live in or where you send your kids to school. It sounds like it's affecting your mood and MH. These people are not that important. Life is too short.

Thing is, family money and help is a thing that happens. But to have multiple friends, who all didn’t get lots of financial help at uni and hadn’t been at expensive schools / grown up in big houses, parents are still alive and yet are getting regular large sums isn’t common at all.

it is far more likely that the OP has massively underestimated how much the partners of her friends earn.

perhaps one of the couples is being bankrolled by parents, but they won’t all be.

it is interesting that the OP has the potential to earn significantly more but has decided the stress wouldn’t be worth it. It could be these couples have decided it is worth it.

What a desperately sad, shallow post. You really need to work on your self esteem

This is such a strange scenario - one I've never come across (and I'm early 50s!).

The only comparable one for me is my BIL. He made long-term friends at Southampton University - he came from a WC background and went into the music industry; most of his friends were MC and went into more traditional, well paying jobs, but none had hugely wealthy parents.

The result is that most of his friends are now living all over the world and have worked very hard and most are now very wealthy, some even retiring now. They are all still close, keep in touch and get together for big anniversaries etc, but there is no real comparison to be had from my DSis - it's all lovely etc.

I just can't get my head around the fact that most of the OPs friends have very easy and not very well paid jobs compared to her, but all seem fabulously wealthy from supposedly family money.

Are you in the North? This just doesn't seem to happen in the South East IME!

I was thinking about this thread, and the comment about they hadn’t sold their first flat when buying the family house, and the assumption that meant a gift from parents. And I would have assumed like you, that was the options, you had to sell up your first property to finance the second, unless parents could gift money / a large inheritance / win the lottery etc.

but BIL and SIL didn’t - they were able to get a let to buy mortgage - essentially a single mortgage over two properties, one to be rented out and the other to live in. The mortgage was calculated on the equity in the first flat being split over both. They had that for 5 years then remortgaged both so their home has a mortgage and the flat has a standard buy to let mortgage.

One thing that doesn’t get handed down, is knowledge that products like this exist - that there are options to increase your wealth. (SILs family knew about such things)

its not just cash being handed over, but advice. (Directly or just other family talking about their lives and you realise other options are available.)

OP, it’s just a series of choices that you’ve all made. They probably chose more lucrative carers - don’t blame it on the parents or assume they’re up to their neck in debt. They just earn more than you and yes private school becomes an assumption at a certain level.

This just isn't true.

The reality is that for people in their 30s, the vast majority of people who own their own homes (let alone own more than one property or have kids in private school) have had an inheritance or been given money by their family.

It does no one any favours to pretend that if you just worked harder and made better choices you could have the same standard of living.

They are all young at the moment but I have visions of when they’re older and all the other kids with posh accents from their private schools, wearing expensive clothes and sharing private jokes about the fun they had on their expensive group holidays, while my kids stand on the sidelines, not able to participate.

it’s starting to read like you’ve signficant issues around money and are deeply envious of others wealth

i can’t even believe you wrote the above, never mind sitting having visions of it. If the kids get on they will hang out, irrelevant of accents and holiday destinations.

don’t bring your kids up to be like you , watching with envy , as that what you basically described

the more you write and try to justify it’s about missing out, the more you come across as jealous of your mates with issues around wealth

The reality is that for people in their 30s, the vast majority of people who own their own homes (let alone own more than one property or have kids in private school) have had an inheritance or been given money by their family

this just isn’t true, and if you’re adamant let’s see a link.

I think you have a lot to unpick. Mostly though, don't have visions or set ideas about your children's friendships. That sounds really unhealthy to me. They will be on their own paths in life and could have absolutely nothing in common with your friends' children.

Yes it's their families. Richer parents , as they get older , start offloading money/investments to their adult kids in order to avoid inheritance tax, to spoil their little grandchildren, and simply to keep the wealth in their family structure.

That won't have been the case when your pals were in their 20s , pre-kids.

Nobody goes into teaching expecting to be well off. Or the charity sector. Absolutely brilliant and meaningful jobs but not a path to riches.

We have done all the above without relying on parents ever. It’s quite a bitter attitude to think that nobody gets anywhere without a leg up. Of course I am speaking as somebody who went to uni when it was still free etc so the support was there to enable that. We bought flats at young ages…. It was definitely easier 25 years ago. I have no idea how the younger generation manages but it’s obvious that some careers simply pay better than others. All the same it would be galling to view yourself as less than just because of material possessions which is what this is about.

OP - there is no shame in simply saying re trips and whatnot - we can’t manage that type of expense, can we have a rethink. But don’t be bitter about people earning more than you. And if it’s not enough for you then change careers - no shame in that either.

OMG, Why is this even bothering you?
Look at your own achievements and be proud of those. Widen your circle of friends to include people from all backgrounds, we have friends who are very (stately home) rich and friends who are unemployed). We love spending time with all of them.
DHs family all work in London/finance, they work hard and play hard, DH and I work equally hard, in public services and although we earn less, we like to think we make a valuable contribution to society.
I certainly don't see us as "worth less" because I don't value "worth" in terms of financial achievement.

Seriously, don't let life slip by, while you fret about why you have less than others.

So you own multiple properties and put your own kids through private school on a teacher's salary then, do you?

I’d just be more upfront. “Nope can’t afford it. How are you lot affording it?” Then see how they answer.

Oh wait, you're talking 25 years ago.

Erm, the world is a different place now! What you could buy on a teacher's salary 25 years ago could not be less relevant to the OP's situation!

"A link"?

Yeah, let me just dig one out, along with a link to evidence of water being wet and other things which are completely fricking obvious.

If you are both working in senior positions at top London accountancy firms, which is what you have alluded to, then presumably you are both earning 100k plus? So actually you probably can afford to send one or two children to private school and go on that ski holiday. Maybe you are just more careful with money, making sure you have savings etc. A group of our friends are going skiing together this easter, we can't afford to join them (because pretty much every spare penny we have goes on school fees) instead we are off to centre parcs with some less affluent friends.

@RosaBonheur - but that’s not a couple - that’s two of her friends and she’s presumed their other halves are earning similar to her. As we’ve said up thread, it’s more likely one partner is lower earning married to a high earning partner. The OP saved and bought a property at a similar age as her friends, but then they did a big jump up - and early 30s is when you start seeing the bigger gaps in income for those who are going to be very successful.

It’s easy to presume it’s family money, but seems unlikely that all of them have parents who are secretly wealthy without big houses or flashy spending themselves, who all didn’t support their dcs through uni, yet are handing over thousands a month now.

it’s the talk of hiring Nannies that makes it unlikely to be family gifts - IME, a lump sum might be given towards a house deposit, or a holiday or car gifted. But a nanny is a £2.5-3k a month commitment. I have heard of grandparents paying for private schools but not nannies so a parent can work for a job that earns about the same as the nanny but not use a nursery or childminder that’s a fraction of the cost - that’s money they can afford to spend from their earned income.

I think the OP has significantly underestimated the wages of her friends partners. As well as the friends making some great financial decisions along the way that might have been helped by parents.

The kids thing. We had several friendship groups. School/uni/neighbours/kids school friends parents. Some groups had different income discrepancies, some not, but all generally followed the same pattern.

When they were young, lots of activities revolved round the kids. They all went to each other birthday parties etc. Mixed on holidays etc. Much like the stage you are at now op. Certainly by secondary school, and for some things before that, things started to change.

Our groups started doing many more adult only things. The kids generally got on but they weren’t friends as such. They’d all developed their own friendship groups and all of a sudden it was easier to just concentrate on doing adult stuff again. Not having to worry to find things that suited everyone. Not having to worry if a there were tensions between a couple of them etc. Babysitting is less of a problem as they get older, so it was easier to arrange things without kids.

So things aren’t static. This is just this period in your life. Go with the flow. They dynamics will change over and over again.

I don't think the nanny issue is as significant as you are making out. It stands to reason that if you are getting money from parents for one thing, you have more left over from your own income for other things. If you have two or more children, a nanny can be as cost effective as having your children in nursery, with more flexibility. And either way, it's a monthly sum you can afford more easily if you aren't trying to save a similar amount from each pay cheque for your next step up on the property ladder, because you know you've got that covered.

I'm in my mid 30s and I literally don't know anyone who bought their first property before the age of 30 without family help, other than one guy who is an entrepreneurial type who was on a 6 figure salary by his late 20s.

We have a household income of over 100k and we have had quite significant financial help from both our families since turning 30. Even so, we were 33 when we bought our first property. We'd like to buy a house in a few years' time but we will definitely not be able to afford to keep our current flat when we size up. And private school will definitely not be within our budget unless my parents want to pay the fees.

If you can afford a live in nanny, you can afford private schooling later- it is a sign of a quite high income. Family might help out - more more likely the OP is completely wrong about what they earn.

if the OP is right - that the friends got a lump sum to move up from a house like her first home to something better, yet earn less than her- then they wouldn’t have spare cash for all the other things, unless they were getting regular handouts. Doesn’t seem likely that these 30 somethings all have parents who didn’t subsidise their children at uni, but instead subsidise them now, parents who do value big houses and fancy holidays enough to fund them for their dcs, yet not live in big houses themselves or had flashy lifestyles when their dcs were teens.

The OP is most probably very wrong about her friends incomes.

she said herself she had the opportunity to take promotions or move within her industry for higher stress and higher paid jobs, seems likely her friends (or their husbands) have made the choice to do that.

I'm not sure how wrong it's possible to be about how much primary school teachers earn, tbh.

@RosaBonheur - it’s perfectly possible to be wrong if you assume their DP earns the same though - early 30s is when the big gaps in income start.

It would seem far more likely that the OP's experience is consistent with my own; i.e. that almost nobody is affording these things without family help.