To feel stressed at being left behind our friendship group

[Feelinadequate23]

DH and I are part of a really close friendship group from uni (where we met). We are all mid-thirties now so have been friends for 15 or so years and we spend a fair amount of time with this group.

At uni we all felt on the same level financially as we all had part time jobs but also all had some financial support from our parents. Then in our twenties we still felt pretty similar, as we all got professional jobs, rented for a bit and then bought 2 bed places with our other halves. DH and I bought in the cheapest place out of the group but we had a nice garden and were near a really fun pub we all used to hang out at, so we didn’t feel like the poor relations, even though we were in the least desirable area.

Then suddenly around the age of 30, it was like everyone else in the friendship group catapulted into a financial level above us out of nowhere. We all got married and had kids so people started moving out of starter homes into family homes. DH and I just upgraded to a 3 bed semi in the same area we were in, whereas everyone else bought really big houses with 4/5 bedrooms, 2/3 bathrooms and an extra study, all in very fancy areas. They’re now all suddenly talking about sending their kids to private primary school, whereas we hadn’t even considered doing that.

It’s starting to get us down as when we meet up it’s like they’re all speaking a different language to us (discussing which room to give to their nanny!) and their ideas of what’s normal are just so different to ours now. We suggested doing a group holiday with kids and were about to suggest a uk holiday cottage type trip, but somehow the conversation turned into them all planning a ski trip, which would mean we couldn’t afford any other trips that year.

The annoying thing is, we’re pretty sure we earn the most out of all the couples, so this money must be coming from their parents - I suspect they were all given hefty deposits and they also all get free holidays with family each year. It’s making us feel really inadequate and also like we can’t hang out with them so much anymore as we can’t join in a lot of the conversations and can’t afford to do some of the things they suggest. It’s very depressing when we work in stressful long hour corporate jobs and they all do nice 9-5s, working in charities and PR firms. But these are our closest friends so we don’t want to lose them.

Considering taking on even more stressful jobs to try to keep up with their lifestyle (which to be fair is very nice and we would love to be able to live like that). AWBU?

@Mumma212 well it does affect our friendships if we can’t go on most of the planned trips! They then start making new memories without us, their kids get closer to one another, etc. etc. We all used to do everything together so it’s not nice to be left out (even though I know they’re not doing it on purpose and are allowed to do things they can afford to)

Then you need to be more proactive with them about how you.meet up You said:
We suggested doing a group holiday with kids and were about to suggest a uk holiday cottage type trip, but somehow the conversation turned into them all planning a ski trip
Did you at any point pipe up to say actually we can't afford that, we were thinking about a UK holiday and actually push that idea? If you want to keep seeing them in this way it sounds like you need to swallow your pride and be honest about it.

I have friends in all sorts of different financial situations.

i think that's the difference though, if you live in a bubble that becomes your reality. I know i'm in a bubble because I didn't grow up in that english mc environment (i'm a 2nd gen immigrant). DH is not from a wealthy background but he is English so our 6 fig deposit came from his gps estate. His parents are also property millionaires. You can easily grow up very average but come into lots of money if your parents/gps bought yrs ago.

You come across like you’ve been deceived by your friends keeping their first properties to let, as if no one told you that was what you needed to do when it’s just a financial decision for them to make. If you needed the money for your next property, it’s not an option for you and that’s ok. We all do the best we can in the situations we’re in. If they can keep hold of property it’s up to them and likely a good investment.

Also, what jobs do you and your husband have that you automatically think you outearn the group? There was a thread here the other day discussing annual salaries for different jobs that people wouldn’t expect. I also have friends that make/sell things online that make more money than you would expect, that they wouldn’t discuss openly.

Another thing you might not have considered is if any of the couples have received inheritance. You might luckily have family members where they do not.

In life, where money is concerned, you will always be in the middle, there are always people with a lot more and people with a lot less.

I absolutely get it OP, it’s not about your jealousy at all, it’s about their assumptions. They just assume that prep school/ ski trip/or whatever is standard and everybody is talking about this confidently, with details and then they all are turning to you and it’s like you are pissing on their chips with your harsh reality of life! You are basically spoiling their conversation with your negative remarks.
It doesn’t matter that you are better then average nationally because in that room at that moment you are not, the dynamics’s changed and you can’t continue as before. So you are not asking about how grateful you should be for everything, I’m sure you are grateful, you are asking how to behave in a new situation.

I was in your situation with “prep conversation” when my friend asked if we were looking at local prep which’s so nice for our daughter ( who’s disabled). I didn’t think for a moment that my friend meant anything spiteful she was just blissfully unaware about realities (she was aware of disability by the way). I answered calmly no, explained briefly why, then came home and felt sad and cried.I know that life is not fair and so on but it sucks.
We are still friends many years down the line - it looks very differently, we both changed. My friend is more thoughtful with questions and I’m more confident and apt with my answers. No way I would be able to maintain a group, too difficult. So you may stay friends with one or two families but I don’t think you will be able to stay in a group, mentally and financially, sorry.

Surely the fact that at least some of these friends went to private school themselves must make you realise it was likely they would send their own DC to private school too.

this is completely outdated. have you not seen how fees have increased & wages have stagnated? Plenty of people who went to private school can't afford to send their dc to it now.

Once your kids all start school the group will be less tight in any event. Kids do stuff at weekends as they get older, commit to sports teams, music concerts, cubs camps etc. so the likelihood of you agreeing dates for holidays is going to get lower and lower. You seem to be measuring yourself in purely financial terms. Let that go; these are either good people that you want long term friendships with, or they aren't. If they are then be honest with them and they will understand. If they aren't and socialising as a family is important then start socialising with more local people who are likely to be at the same schools as your DC.

Why does it matter how they live their lives and what or who funds it? Groups of friends aren’t a homogenous mass who all evolve and achieve in exactly the same way. So it’s not sensible to expect this.

Do you know what makes you happy or is it based on what you think you should have, or what your friends have? Do they judge you for your lifestyle or is it your destructive inner voice playing that narrative?

I have a group of friend for 15 years. We all earn different amounts, but I’d say DP and I earn a bit less. Most of the others do have wealthier families and more parental help. However, they’ve always known that I enjoy different things than them which is reflected in my lifestyle, and there’s zero judgement. We are all middle class and uni educated - met when we joined a prestigious grad scheme but have taken different career paths since.

DP and I are city folk who never wanted the big house and stuff, and being mortgaged to the gills. We are both quite minimalist people and love our smaller place because it has everything we need. All my friends moved further out and have beautiful homes I love to visit but never covet. We still participate in conversations about renovations and nannies though, the same way we’d discuss politics in a country we’ve never visited - not doing something doesn’t stop you discussing it! I personally hate group holidays and my friends know this - DP and I have a shared hobby we do together and limited holiday time we want to spend together as we work long hours, and don’t get much couple time. It will be the same when we have kids as i think quality family time is important and tough to do when it’s a big group. Skiing is something we do as a group but there’s no pressure for everyone to join every year. It’s just a more cost effective way for those who do want it to do it. DP has been sometimes but only on years we have the funds. Private school is the one thing DP and I have to save for as my friends live in good school catchments and don’t have to worry - DP and I in inner city London do. But with a smaller mortgage and more frugal lifestyle we can manage this. My friends mostly travel first class and will have quite boring convos on collecting points, DP and I take tips but know we’ll never do it ourselves. What we save on travelling economy we put towards far more holidays (and private school fund).

As an aside I have a flat I rent out - I bought it completely on my own with no help, even before I met DP. But it was in a rough area that got completely gentrified and pays for itself - so I’ll never sell it. But I bought it when my friends were saving for big weddings and I saved for a deposit instead (never wanting big wedding). Different life choices at play again.

If you’re feeling judged, then you do need to make some new friends and not focus only on this group. Do you not have hobbies where you could make friends to share that aspect with?

I like my friends, and they me, because of our common history, sense of humour, politics, and just how easily conversation flows. I do not expect us to live exactly alike because that means we haven’t evolved at all in 15 years. You can maintain friendships and not let them dictate your happiness or the direction of your life - that way madness lies. Maybe focus more of your family and hobbies for some time to take some space from the group?

My god.the materialism and conformity on here is so depressing.

I think you need to be more upfront and say sorry we can’t finance a ski trip this year, saving for renovations. How about a cottage by the sea instead? Or if it really bothers you then do the ski trip with them and don’t have another holiday that year? Plenty of lovely cheap days out you can do as a family in the UK.
I understand it’s difficult. Incidentally we had a nanny for our children, it made more financial sense for us as we have two DC so cheaper than paying two sets of nursery fees and having the stress of having to be there in time for close, and I would have said at the time that nursery fees were a luxury I couldn’t afford.

Or you could just say things like oh we have excellent state schools locally so don’t need to go private, or we are maxing out pension contributions this year so skiing doesn’t work, let’s do something else instead.

Another thought, is it a couple of couples have family wealth, the others actually feel like you and are in serious debt to keep up with the actual rich couples - thus creating the illusion everyone except you has help… ?

You sound very jealous. It sounds like they all made better choices, and it sounds like you think you're the higher earners but are probably not. I cant imagine you've asked them all what they earn, because that would just be rude. Instead of comparing yourself to others, just do you.

I get what you're saying OP. It's the difference between being 'established' middle class (so going to uni and home ownership being established over several generations) and being the first in your family to do/have those things.

I was in a similar situation when I was married. ExH and I were both first in our families to go to uni and have professional jobs. My parents owned their home but his didn't, grandparents on both sides didn't own etc, so not much in the way of family money or inheritances. Basically everything we had we paid for ourselves. I have friends whose families are more 'established' - home ownership is the norm as is working in the professions - and they have benefitted from six figure inheritances from grandparents etc. Plus they married similar so it's on both sides of the family. It just is what it is and I don't begrudge them it, but it does make for significant difference ls in lifestyle (minimal mortgages, private schools, second homes etc), despite us all working in similar professions with similar salaries.

Maybe you feel it more because you've managed to maintain a very tight Uni friendship group? I have uni friends but we see each other quite sporadically and often one on one rather than as a group. I don't think we'd be able to align our diaries for regular meet ups and group holidays to be honest! I have lots of other friendships too. Having one tight group of friends from your late teens as your main friendship group sounds quite restricting, plus the group itself seems quite insular if they think everyone sends their kids to prep school etc.

Focus on your own lives and stop comparing. Sound like school kids.

@pizzaHeart thank you, you seem to really understand where I'm coming from. It's the coming home after a meet-up and just feeling crap that we're struggling with.

Blunt, but your friendships sound quite shallow and were originally based on proximity and mutual circumstance.

I'm surprised all of your friends were in the same financial situation at uni.

I would try to meet other types of people (volunteer, sport, meetup group) to get a sense of perspective. Wanting to change jobs to mirror this group is not healthy.

This is one of the whiniest posts (as are the subsequent ones) written in quite some time
If you are that jealous (and yes, despite your protestations, it is writ-large) and resent the fact they won't 'own up' to having external money, then it is time to leave this group and find friends that don't get any extra to bolster their salaries

@Feelinadequate23

BOMAD.

I voted YANBU because it must be incredibly frustrating to know that however hard you work, you can never keep up.

But comparison is the thief of joy. Try not to let it ruin your friendships.

@ganvough thanks for your post. This stood out to me "Do you know what makes you happy or is it based on what you think you should have, or what your friends have?"

I think we thought we knew what makes us happy, and would be very happy indeed with our lot if we didn't know this group. But now we're seeing everyone around us, with what we thought was a similar start in life (i.e. same uni), and they're all choosing the same, expensive lifestyle choices, and it's assumed that's what everyone can have if they want it. So now we're thinking well we would like those things in an ideal world, so should we be making bigger sacrifices to have those things? If not, what does that say about our choices in life? But in reality none of the group are making any sacrifices to have those things, they are just being given them, so of course they "want them" - we would happily take any of the things if they were given to us for free, we just can't work out how much of a sacrifice we're willing to make to get them (I think we would have to sacrifice time as a family, time as a couple and mental health with the extra stress).

We both currently work full time in corporate jobs by the way, so it's not like we're slacking at the moment! But have both decided not to go for the most extreme version of our jobs, if that makes sense.

You have no idea about people's circumstances. I work in banking and on a daily basis deal with people (often 'rich' appearing) who are ridiculously in debt.

Then some people normalise borrowing on credit cards and loans. I don't touch either.

There's a book called Affluenza.

I recommend reading it.

OP we live surrounded by people that have had a leg up from parents and we didn’t - be proud that your achievements are your own .

@ThePaperTrail that actually looks like just what I need! Ordered!

I don't think you're being unreasonable OP because I think it's hard when you are suddenly "different" from the rest of your friendship group, for whatever reason. Could be wealth but could be something entirely different e.g. others are married but you are single, others in good health but you have a health issue, others have kids and you don't/couldn't, other kids are neurotypical but yours is neurodivergent or otherwise struggling, etc etc etc.

I wonder if the answer is to try and keep these friendships but also try and build other networks as well. That way you're likely to meet other people more like you (and me!) and it won't all be about your rich friends. And keep the one-to-one meet ups but skip the super expensive meals and holidays.

You may find things change again over the years - kids grow up, some couples split up. I know in my Uni friendship group many of us had babies around the same time while a couple of friends couldn't or didn't want to. The conversation always seemed to turn to kids no matter how much we tried otherwise, and I felt guilty about this (to be fair we were knackered and had done nothing except baby/toddler care!). Now the kids are older they are less of a focus when we meet up - they are mentioned in passing of course but no longer the sole topic of conversation. Maybe a similar thing will happen with your group. But I still think making sure it is not your "only" group might help put things in perspective.