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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To charge DH for my lost earnings?

349 replies

Wiwi · 27/02/2023 11:33

My DH is a contractor and will soon need to look for another role hes been WFH for 4 years. I've found WFH one but it's not as much pay as canary wharf 5 days per week which will mean he will live at his mums and commute in. We have never really shared finances wholly,
I work in a job with unsociable hours , I make good money but I have to leave at 8-9pm I work compressed hours. If DH takes the canary wharf jobm y earning power will be severely impacted as I need to care for my DD. I have no outside help.

I've told DH that he will either have to top up my wages to how much I've lost or pay for a nanny. I also have a health condition and compressed hours make it easier to manage.
DH is saying I'm being unreasonable and that it's good he's earning more money but I don't believe it's beneficial in anyway to my life. I would rather he took the job with less pay so I am able to work as I need too.

I feel I have financial independence at the moment and the working away would make me feel vulnerable. AIBU?

OP posts:
Ihavedogs · 28/02/2023 14:28

WickedStepmomNOT · 28/02/2023 13:07

Oops, just seen @Ihavedogs ·update at 12:35 - pretty much what I thought re joint v shared finances.

Other than when we had a mortgage that we both contributed to (different proportions at different stages of its lifetime), everything else was and continues to be completely separate. No joint bank accounts, no sharing of any other bill. He is responsible for and pays some, I do others.

I guess its a bit like going out for a meal with good friends on a regular basis, no joint or shared finances, but paying the bill or even bills in a manner which we consider to be fair over a period of time. That could be splitting the bill equally, paying for what we have eaten via one bill or having individual bills, the one who drank the alcohol or had starter, main and pud pays slightly more but the otherwise the bill is split equally. On occasion one picks up the whole bill, or the others treat someone on their birthday, or if money is short etc. All very fluid, but if you all coming from a place of equity, fairness and selflessness, it can work well.

I totally understand OP’s position and where she is coming from as she is the one trying to be fair and equitable, but sadly her DH is putting his own interests not only above those of OP and DD, but to their detriment.

WickedStepmomNOT · 28/02/2023 15:17

I guess its a bit like going out for a meal with good friends on a regular basis, no joint or shared finances, but paying the bill or even bills in a manner which we consider to be fair over a period of time.

Great analogy, @Ihavedogs and an equitable system which works for you. But then your obviously a reasonable person whereas OP's H is not. Their DD is ten - she was SAHM for six years (while he worked AFH Mon - Fri and didn't pay her anything) then the next four they shared parenting while OP restarted her career, and now not only does he want to work AFH Mon - Fri again, but doesn't want to pay for childcare / babysitting / whatever correct terminology is for a ten year old. So appears to be expecting OP either to contribute an uneven amount or - horrors - give up her career and go part time.

Very unfair - OP can get a joke book to amuse her because this funny man is rapidly becoming very unfunny indeed.

Botw1 · 28/02/2023 15:21

@AlliWantIsARoomSomewheeeere

Its not reading comprehension

It's sexism

People genuinely think that mothers shouldn't work and if they do, it should only be if they have literally no other option

So they see nothing wrong with a dad working away. Think it's terrible if a man has to focus on anything except his career or making money but will then tell a woman she shouldn't be doing either

It's like their tiny brains can't see the hypocrisy

T1Dmama · 28/02/2023 15:46

Wiwi · 28/02/2023 00:59

It doesn't benefit us a family no. My DD misses out on her seeing her Dad. If my job offered WFH or hybrid with slightly less pay I'd take it I can't do that though in my industry. It's not astronomical amounts it's £75-£125 per day a lot that will be eaten up in extra taxes and commuting costs he's already a higher earner. I didn't say he solely had to WFH I found a hybrid one nearby and he scoffed at the pay although it was good and slight increase to what he's currently being paid.

I think you just need to tell him that you don’t want him taking a job that means he’s away from you and DD.
If he takes the job and it affects your earning capacity then I’m sorry but he’s a very selfish person and if he’s not helping with the financial cost of living then he’s actually financially abusing you OP!
I think you need to take a long look at the relationship and make some difficult decisions going forward

K37529 · 28/02/2023 20:02

No do not agree to this. Your partner getting a new job and higher salary should benefit the whole family, the only person benefiting from this is him. If his new salary can not cover the cost of childcare without making a loss against his old salary then this new arrangement does not benefit the family, it will only benefit him and you will suffer the losses. Also how does your dd feel about only seeing her dad 2 days a week?

ArchibaldsDaddy · 28/02/2023 22:21

Do him a favour and leave him. I suspect you’ll both be a lot happier.

This sounds like a totally miserable set up…

Ihavedogs · 01/03/2023 09:04

WickedStepmomNOT · 28/02/2023 15:17

I guess its a bit like going out for a meal with good friends on a regular basis, no joint or shared finances, but paying the bill or even bills in a manner which we consider to be fair over a period of time.

Great analogy, @Ihavedogs and an equitable system which works for you. But then your obviously a reasonable person whereas OP's H is not. Their DD is ten - she was SAHM for six years (while he worked AFH Mon - Fri and didn't pay her anything) then the next four they shared parenting while OP restarted her career, and now not only does he want to work AFH Mon - Fri again, but doesn't want to pay for childcare / babysitting / whatever correct terminology is for a ten year old. So appears to be expecting OP either to contribute an uneven amount or - horrors - give up her career and go part time.

Very unfair - OP can get a joke book to amuse her because this funny man is rapidly becoming very unfunny indeed.

There have been so many comments about joint finances being in essence a red flag on a relationship that I wanted to put forward a counter position, as not having joint finances does not have to be a red flag at all.

I totally agree with your comments about the OP’s position and I have interpreted it in exactly the same way as you have.

In her case it is not just about the financial resources but also other resources including those around raising the DD (time, physical effort, emotional and financial). There also appears to be unilateral decision making to the detriment to all but one member of the household (the decision maker).

datsunrobbie · 01/03/2023 18:58

Seems obvious that the husband should take the job the wife found for him, and the wife should pay the husband the difference in the two salaries.

WickedStepmomNOT · 01/03/2023 21:23

datsunrobbie · 01/03/2023 18:58

Seems obvious that the husband should take the job the wife found for him, and the wife should pay the husband the difference in the two salaries.

What? OP is already earning less because she did the first 6 years as SAHM, and her H contributed nothing to her, so she lost out on earnings, pension, career progression. She's been back at work for 4 years and they've shared childcare but now he expects her to take another hit - all the while earning well but not contributing as he should. He should take the local job, keep sharing the parental responsibilities and OP owes him nothing for just doing what a proper husband and father ought to do.

ConfusedNT · 02/03/2023 00:18

datsunrobbie · 01/03/2023 18:58

Seems obvious that the husband should take the job the wife found for him, and the wife should pay the husband the difference in the two salaries.

Given the husband was borderline financially abusing his wife during the 6 years she didn't work, whilst he worked away, leaving her to do 100% of the parenting Monday to Friday I think he owes her a whole lot more lost earnings than she owes him

Add to that he's only been home Mon-Fri for 4 years of his daughters life, he's only shared weekday parenting for 4 years of his daughters life, and now he wants to go back to only seeing his daughter on weekends again

And to facilitate that he either expects the OP to take a lower paid job which will also cause her more health problems, or fund childcare because apparently she is back to being the sole parent on weekdays

But somehow she's the bad parent and bad partner and she owes him? What the fuck has happened to mumsnet?

Pupinski · 04/03/2023 18:09

If the question is should you charge your DH for lost earnings, then yes YABU. That's a ridiculous transaction within a marriage!

If your question is should your DH behave like a responsible grown up and family man and contribute to his own child's childcare, then no, YANBU.

Who pays for shared costs now? Mortgage, food, family outings, household bills? If you don't have a pot into which you put money for shared costs, proportionate to each of your salaries, then your should sort one out, and your DD's childcare should come out of that pot.

Pupinski · 04/03/2023 18:17

Wiwi · 27/02/2023 13:11

I don't see why I should have to share the cost of the nanny when it is his choice to get a job in London. He doesn't have too there's WFH jobs albeit paying 525 instead of 600-700 per day but also I cannot work and I get 325-425 per day so it's a net loss .if I find another job I struggle with 9-5 and it will mean a huge pay cut for me. He will also have to pay huge taxes on the extra 75- £125 he makes.

Woah! There's a lot more going on here than childcare costs, isn't there?! Marriage is about compromise, isn't it? There appears to be zero compromise here whatsoever on either side.

If he takes the job in London, then of course you should share the childcare costs. DD is yours to, and it's about her, not about your pride. If you feel strongly enough that he shouldn't take the job - enough to risk your marriage - then tell him so. That's the real problem at the heart of this, right.

What's sad is that you both seem to be acting like spoilt children over money. That's not a healthy state of being.

Lupita123 · 04/03/2023 18:27

Totally with you on this. Money isn't everything and, as long as you can get by, I would want more time together as a family. Living apart for the sake of a role and some extra money is just odd and will be very confusing for your child

Pupinski · 04/03/2023 18:29

Wiwi · 27/02/2023 13:24

She's 10, she walks herself to school and back with friends. She's not a baby or toddler, I parented her myself for years Monday to Friday alone from the age of birth - 6.

Are you seriously expecting plaudits for looking after your child until she was six? Seriously? She's your child for a God's sake! 🤦‍♀️ The more I read the more you both seem to view her as an inconvenience to squabble over who should be responsible for her. Poor child!

Gemcat1 · 04/03/2023 19:25

I hate to say this but many men don't think about their partner or children when making life decisions such as changing a job. I've heard similar stories through the years. My DH always discussed the changes when he changed his job to see how it impacted our lives. I worked part-time once we had children and worked out how to care for them in the holidays. Being in IT he often had to travel during the week and I sometimes struggled if the kids were ill or had inset days. We have joint finances. My suggestion is to set up a bills account so that you share the cost of running the house as you always have but to include the cost of child care. If your DH is living with his mum then I assume he will have to give her something but he will need to ensure that you have sufficient for a nanny or whoever you need to help. Perhaps he needs to draw up a weekly/monthly spend including childcare to see if he really will be earning more by changing jobs,

BlueHeelers · 04/03/2023 21:43

I hate to say this but many men don't think about their partner or children when making life decisions such as changing a job. I've heard similar stories through the years.

Indeed. And I’ve seen marriages dissolve when men do this.

BlueHeelers · 04/03/2023 21:46

Are you seriously expecting plaudits for looking after your child until she was six?

Can’t you read? The OP was pointing out that she took on sole care of hers and her husband’s child because his job meant he did no care of his own child.

@Wiwi deserves a medal for forbearance and sacrifice rather than your nasty berating post.

Kit7 · 05/03/2023 08:12

My wife and I have a joint account and share all costs. I earn 75% of our total income but it’s all joint and for our collective benefit and that of our family. I don’t have more disposable income just for me it would be unfair.

I don’t get how people can live any other way - charging each other and not sharing costs no doubt puts your collective improvement at a disadvantage.
if you share a home, a bed, a family then you should share all costs proportionally based on earnings.

Grammarnut · 05/03/2023 11:15

Kit7 · 05/03/2023 08:12

My wife and I have a joint account and share all costs. I earn 75% of our total income but it’s all joint and for our collective benefit and that of our family. I don’t have more disposable income just for me it would be unfair.

I don’t get how people can live any other way - charging each other and not sharing costs no doubt puts your collective improvement at a disadvantage.
if you share a home, a bed, a family then you should share all costs proportionally based on earnings.

Agree totally. I don't see how a marriage/partnership can work at all if one partner is saying their money is for their own disposal irrespective of what they need as a family. Weird.

Ellyess · 05/03/2023 16:45

I don't think I can add to what I've already said.

Many people who are being judgemental are not seeing the situation clearly here. Comparing to your own egalitarian partnership, sharing money, is not relevant. Have you not read the OP's words? Her husband simply keeps his pay and does not give her any money. If our OP does not have a job she has absolutely NO MONEY. And she was kept like that for 6 years after her baby was born.

Neither are cruel remarks made from your inference that she is looking for 'plaudits because she was at home with her child. It merely shows you have utterly missed the point and are simply trying to be nasty. If you cannot understand the situation, don't write nasty things about people.

This Mum has an unreasonable, selfish in fact cruel husband. He did not support her financially at all, and was not at home at all during the week while his daughter was new-born to 6 years old.

Can you imagine it? Having your first baby, and your husband leaves you on your own Mon-Fri without a penny! What do you do all day? What if you need to pay for a prescription or if a friend asks you to meet in town for a coffee? For 6 years she was worse off than a single mother. No wonder this has left her very careful not to be left in that situation again.

Currently he works from home and she has a job 3 days a week with the occasional fourth day. This means their ten year old is looked after by her father 3 afternoons when she gets in from school.

Now he is planning to quit his part in contributing to child care by being home when his daughter gets in from school 3 days a week.

He's planning to leave his wife and child alone from Mon-Fri while he works away to get about £200 a day more. He will not take any responsibility for walking out on his 3 afternoons of child-care from 4pm and is dumping it on his wife. In order to not have her daughter coming home to an empty house, it will mean his wife will not be able to work as she does now and as her job requires. She would effectively lose her career.

This selfish man obviously does not care about his daughter or wife. He has an alternative offer on a bit less pay to work from home and do as he does now. The lowere off still pays him more than now and anyway will not incur the huge travelling expenses and higher tax of the other job.

He is not prepared to pay for child care to cover the the after school period he is leaving uncovered by moving away. He expects his wife to lose her good job and work on a low-income job if she can get one, and keep herself and daughter living off what would be her much lower earnings because he does not give her a penny.

This is not just unreasonable of him it is utterly selfish and cruel and reveals he is an abusive husband and father who does not take responsibility for his daughter or wife who has health concerns which would limit her employment possibilities.

I don't know why he got married. He does not behave as though he is a married man. I would divorce him and let the court decide what he should pay in maintenance, who has the house, etc.

Dear Wiwi, please get legal advice. If you are forced to stop your job you really must get help. But please get rid of this cruel and selfish man anyway. There are other good people out there and being on your own with your daughter and a reliable income would be better than working as a slave while he does whatever he wants and you try to be in several places at once because otherwise you have no money for your daughter or yourself.

Ellyess · 05/03/2023 19:33

It is not about who pays for what.

It is about a failing marriage which is not working because the husband does not share his salary with his family.

It started to fail when he left his wife with a new baby on her own and worked away from Monday to Friday and gave her no housekeeping. She had no money from him. This went on for 6 years.

`instead of her telling him he must support his family and give her access to housekeeping money, and if he refused she would leave him, she decided she could only do one thing; go out to work.

That was not surprising. Because she still undertook the vast majority of child-care outside school hours, she took a job with long hours for three days a week. It was by no means as well paid as her husband but he expected her to keep herself and presumably her child too, as far as clothes, school outings, birthdays etc..

He worked from home so was there when his daughter came in after school on his wife's work-days.

Now he's going to stop doing that.

He does not see that he ought to make an equal contribution to the household/family in a manner as below:-

They open a joint account and each pay in all his salary and she pay in hers and they pay themselves a certain - same each - amount into their personal accounts each month for personal use (presents, hairdresser etc.) So there is the one main joint family account and they each have their own personal accounts. It should never be an argument about who pays in most because salaries and ability to work will differ. Both parties are working whether at work or home with the family. There must be mutual respect for this.

My feeling is, if a woman is married to a man who refuses to set up their finances some way similar to above, then the man has revealed he loves money rather than his wife and she should leave him.

Money tells the truth about us.

And here our OP is trying to explain something with great difficulty, which gets lost with the wrong issues. I get the impression she is not all that familiar with how other people organise family money or maybe she was cut off from friends and family when she had her baby.

I am sure it began when she probably nearly had a break down when left on her own with a new baby and without a penny and realised she was with a man who did not value her enough to even give her some money to go out for a coffee while he was away. I do not think she realised exactly how unreasonable he was and I suspect she was scared to speak up. I think when she talks about who should take turns with child care it is really a displaced anxiety from that dreadful time when she learned that you really cannot live without money and her husband doesn't care if he forces her into this position again. Rather than talk about feelings too, I suspect she prefers to keep the problem contained in cut and dried terms about money and hours.

Wiwi - Although it seems to be about making him realise it's his responsibility to cover his absence from the afternoons he currently is home for your daughter, and especially since he is causing the change, it is his duty to do it, and it is only fair that he does, tI think he real problem is deeper than that.

If this had not arisen, if he hadn't said he was not going to be in on the three afternoons a week for his daughter, I think another problem would have cropped up at some point. He has a problem. It would be impossible for him not to affect you with his deep-seated personality problem.

The real problem is that this man is totally selfish.
The American Dictionary of the Psychological association states:
Some signs of a selfish person include:

-having no regard for how their behavior impacts others
-consistently acting in their own self-interests instead of meeting the needs of others
-having no empathy for the suffering of other people
-showing no remorse when they’ve hurt other people
-using manipulation tactics to get what they want
-always asking for favors but never repaying them
-being unkind, or their kindness comes with a price
-using others to get what they want
-not giving back to others
-feeling entitled to always getting what they want, even if it means that others will be pushed down

The only way to deal with a selfish person is to have strong boundaries. Make it clear that you will not tolerate certain things. If the person always ruins your life by doing things that mean you cannot carry out your job or look after your child, then there is only one way to go. Avoid them. Leave them.
The problem has come to light here because he will not share his true financial responsibilities for his family. In not doing so he is openly revealing he does not love his baby or wife enough to actually maintain them financially.
He got away with leaving you on your own and penniless for 6 years from when his baby was born. How you coped I cannot imagine. But he got away with it and now thinks it's ok.

I believe he will not change. The true him is out in the open now as you have hit another crisis brought about by his selfish choice of more money over family. He prefers to not see his daughter and cause great hurt to his wife and keep all his higher pay, rather than to stay and see his daughter, be with his family, support his wife, still be paid well and still keep his pay - which should be fairly shared, see paragraph*.

I think this shows the truth about him.

Now you know he loves money more than his daughter or you, are you prepared to work to support such a selfish man? Because every penny you earn goes towards his keeping his fat salary for himself. If he says because he's paid more he deserves to spend more on himself than you do, or that he deserves an expensive motorbike because he "earned it" and implies if you want one you should get a better job and buy your own, he should not be married. His attitude suggests he's a narcissist.

Remember, you are working, whether it's being at work doing your job or in the home cooking, planning, washing, looking after DD... He the same. It's the two combined that should be equal and all members of the family should receive in the same way from the family money. Imagine (to make it easy) you were paid 400peanuts pcm and he gets 1000 peanuts pcm. All 1400 of it goes into the family joint account and from that each of you is paid 100peanuts a month into your own personal account for personal spending. Then everything needed to run the house and for the family comes from the 1200peanuts a month joint account. That includes traveling expenses to work, DD pocket money, all house bills, food, etc. clothes for all of you, (Maybe talk over any large bills required for special things), Dentist's fees, ... any 'normal' living expenses.

I've reread your responses Wiwi, and still think you are a good hard-working mum and a good role-model. It's good for your DD to see her mum doing well in a career she put herself through training for. You get lots of time with your daughter too.

I utterly detest that your selfish husband (I can't write 'D'H) thinks he does not have to contribute fully to a joint budget for the family and have a personal account into which he is paid the same as you. If you both do this you are both equals. As for his paying bills for his daughter on a 50-50 basis when he makes it difficult for you to earn and you earn so much less than he.. that is wrong too! You said, "Yes he contributes , mortgage bills are paid In proportion to earnings." and "He pays for internet , council tax and a few other bits." Of course he does! He would have to pay these if he weren't married! He needs the internet for work! and "money he sees money as his. I think he spends most of his income he gambles on high risk stocks , cars, motorbikes ,"
What kind of person is he? No pension, throws away money...

I think what sums it up is
"He won't pool resources properly never has done , it's like getting blood of out of stone. Hence I work " plus "He's tight. He doesn't really see that the job in Canary wharf only benefits him not me or DD." Well, it doesn't "not benefit" you and DD", Wiwi, it harms you, both of you!

and when you were forced to be at home, it wasn't the SAHM part really that put you off, IMHO, because you said if you won the lottery you'd stay with your DD all the time, it's that memory of that time when, you told us you, "felt very vulnerable" on your own at home alone all day and night with no money.

Oh PLEASE Wiwi, get rid of him so you can take control of your life and your daughter's life. Please go to a Solicitor now. I'm praying for you.

[Has he taken out life insurance on himself and you? I assume he has it for the mortgage. ]

Ellyess · 05/03/2023 19:39

Kit7 Perfect! 😌 👏 Thank you!

Sorry my previous reply above is long it began as 2 replies, I can't reduce it as my eyes are watering too much - I have some problems seeing the screen, sorry.

Stewball01 · 07/03/2023 15:04

It's a big problem. Good luck 👍.

ItsaMetalBand · 07/03/2023 15:50

I've a DH who has always pooled everything with me, we've done that from the moment we moved in together. All money coming in is 'our' money.

I always have worked and always will work (until I win enough on the lottery) because even with a sharing, generous husband, you just never know what is around the corner for either of you.

Do NOT give up your hours. Repeat to him that you giving up work is not and never will be an option, so what's his solution? This sudden change in childcare needs is down to him making a choice that works for him, not one that works for the family unit. So now it's on him, what's HIS solution?

If pushed, what you could do is say that your DD needs care 7 days a week. So for 3.5 days a week, each of you are responsible, either in person or paying someone to look after her.
So, one weekend day each and 5 days divided by two. You are responsible for 2.5 days weekdays, plus one weekend day, he's responsible for the same.

Now, how he arranges his hours to reduce what he pays for childcare is his business - and likewise for you. You have two weekdays free, plus a weekend day so you'll only have to pay childcare for 0.5 days. Plus any days that you need childcare at the weekend on 'your' day if you are working a weekend shift.

He on the other hand now he's moving from a hybrid to a mon-fri set up, will have to pay for 2.5 days worth of childcare during the week. And if on his weekend day allocated he wants to go off on his motorbike or whatever leaving you and DD at home he can trade you a day, meaning that the next weekend shift you work, he looks after DD...

That's proportional and fair, right?

You should probably accept though that if he's happy to go back to living with mum and getting his meals all laid out in front of him, that your marriage at best will become a long distance one and may just morph into an unofficial separation- however, you are practical, hard working and strategic so I'm sure that you will factor that into any contingency plans you have if you haven't already.

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