Incels

[Theninetieswerebetter]

Is anyone watching ‘Untold’ on Channel 4?

I worry for my DD’s future

I have a 17 year old daughter and this is a real worry as we move closer to her heading out into the larger world, university etc.

That ⬆️ was for @Topnun

@takealettermsjones Funny how there's so much rhetoric about "women's selection processes" and "focus on looks/physique", as though women are never assessed harshly by men or valued by their looks alone.

Quite. It's not women who are out there abducting, torturing, raping and killing men, is it? We just get on with the business of living our lives as best we can.

It's almost as if men are the problem. Dare we even suggest they take responsibility for their own actions? Perish the thought!

@SerafinasGoose I was just about to post the same thing! It explains so much about incels but also so many of the wider toxic male behaviours talked about on this site.

For a subset of men, they see women being independent and financially secure and happy without being tied to a man and it enrages them.
For too long women have had to endure abusive or unfulfilling relationships whilst even the most inadequate or violent man could be fairly certain of finding a partner. Now that women are choosing male partners on the basis of compatibility or desire rather than need, it’s upsetting the apple cart. They want us to aim lower rather than working on themselves.

I have also seen that the ‘I deserve a 10’ rhetoric is not limited to young incels. So many men who become single in midlife also have this mindset and online dating has made it easier for them to think they are entitled to someone way out of their league and when that doesn’t happen they become incredibly bitter and angry about having to ‘settle’ for the women who do want to date them.

Add that to how current porn trends depict women and you have a prevailing attitude that women are good for one thing only and if they don’t provide it, they get what’s coming to them.

There’s a trend on social media at the moment of young women sharing their experiences with men and it’s set to a soundtrack that says ‘I’m not afraid of god, I am afraid of men’.

For every advance we have made in society, misogyny and violence against women seems to be worse than I can ever remember.

Re. autism: men aren't incles because of autism but let's not pretend it can't be a factor in making males more vulnerable to extremism, when combined with other factors. Just like other vulnerabilities are risk factors, per the Prevent strategy (note I am not celebrating Prevent as some brilliant thing, it's very flawed, but it's useful shorthand in this context).

(I am autistic btw)

Mainstream UK culture feels/seems generally a lot less macho than thirty years + ago, That's my opinion formed from life experience so can't provide any peer reviewed studies! Sure GothicViolence is generalising, but no more than plenty of others on this thread. For instance, there have been targeted group killings by disaffected men of varied ethnicities in the US in the last few years so why did a poster mention whites specifically? I was disheartened when a poster speculated about young men with autism at the start of their post and then later on used loner/weirdo almost as if it were interchangeable! I read a great article by a psychologist that argued that Elliot Rodgers writings and behaviour strongly indicated had he Antisocial Personality Disorder, rather than the Asperger's he had been previously diagnosed with. How common is this misdiagnosing? Four reasons for the rise of the Incel: Many lads struggling at school would have been able to leave at 14/15 a few generations ago with no qualifications and get a manual job that paid ok. Great social communication skills are highly valued in our modern world. Internet/social media has possibly ramped up 'Keeping up with the Jones' mentality massively; In the past people didn't seem to have to have the best of everything at all times and be 'living their best life' etc, (again, just my opinion, no research!) Also, and very obviously, the internet allows isolated young men to connect and encourage mutual resentment just as it allows other groups to.

and yet the focus on social and communication skills being highly regarded also applies to women. Who generally don't set up websites and organisations with the sole aim of dissing men and making plans to get the 10s.

I definitely agree about the pornography of today being horrendous and ubiquitous. I think its definitely one key thing we can identify that was dealt with better in the past in the UK. I remember people campaigning and complaining at some of the mags that could be bought on the top shelf at newsagents, but that was enough for most and tame by contemporary standards.

Nah, that would be too much work. I just covertly slip my birth control pills into his morning coffee, that I of course make for him because it's my job as the woman in the relationship to provide his breakfast 😂

Brefugee, true about applying to both, but the idea that at group level women have better social, verbal and communication skills than males generally is ubiquitous. There may be research to state otherwise however? I'm guessing it's a common belief as research generally backs this up, but appreciate that just because something is a common belief doesn't make it true!

Talking broadly, I think we have to keep in mind that these types of men can do great harm offline as we have seen in too many tragic cases, but they remain a tiny minority of men.

I was disheartened when a poster speculated about young men with autism at the start of their post and then later on used loner/weirdo almost as if it were interchangeable

the uncomfortable and unspoken truth in an effort to be inclusive is autism makes you socially awkward and an outsider. Autism comes with the perception of loner and weirdo. I say this as a person who probably has ASD and as a parent of a child with ASD.

The nature of the condition is to struggle with social interaction.

It is part of the human condition to seek to be understood and find your tribe who can become your support network. Is it any wonder these socially awkward, socially isolated young men group together with kindred spirits?

I watched it. I was quite shocked as my prior knowledge of incels was quite superficial. I had never heard of femcels.

Also, and very obviously, the internet allows isolated young men to connect and encourage mutual resentment just as it allows other groups to.

This is what struck me. Thirty years ago there may have been incels but they would have been isolated and unable to feed off each other.

Talking broadly, I think we have to keep in mind that these types of men can do great harm offline as we have seen in too many tragic cases, but they remain a tiny minority of men

Broadly speaking we have to keep in mind that men commit 98% of violence and so any social movement that encourages destructive or violent tendencies in men, or an idea that they are superior to women and that women owe them something should be treated very seriously.

Burnoutcandle, It's good to to hear that you as someone possibly Autistic isn't offended. I was possibly being over sensitive on others behalf! It does puzzle me though that there seems to a creeping assumption in society/press that a lot of these young men who are Incels or involved with terror groups have Autism as a common bond, when it appears to be actually be non Autistic traits like aggressiveness, envy, narcissism, entitlement, and lack of thinking ahead that are more glaring than their social awkwardness.

Confused NT Fair point, it really is starling to see that figure in black and white: '98% of violence.'

-Startling!- sorry

Autism is not the be all and end all of it, of course not. It just so happens to be a high percentage of men who are incels or trans have autism. Correlation does not equal causation etc etc. However in a rush to be inclusive and politically correct we mustn't ignore what is staring us in the face.

This sense of entitlement, misogyny, narcissistic behaviour and aggression is part of the group think that comes from them fueling each other online. Mental illness has a degree of social contagion about it (see eating disorders in girls schools as an example).

Not all incels are autistic and not all people with autism are incels but we do need to acknowledge the vulnerability of this group of individuals. As others have identified once you become an adult the system bottoms out and you're left to wander about through society in an aimless manner if you weren't supported well at an earlier stage of life

Surely only as secretaries or typists though 😉

Talking broadly, I think we have to keep in mind that these types of men can do great harm offline as we have seen in too many tragic cases, but they remain a tiny minority of men.

I don't care how many men it is. They are dangerous. Not many adults are paedophiles but you still need a DBS check to work with kids.

Because the same men tend to be chosen to father children by multiple different women

Right, and how many of that 40% are self diagnosed, as seems to be the trend now?

@Burntoutcandle That's exactly what you did! You said they're usually autistic!

@QueenCamilla Don't you DARE tell me to "go away!" You don't own this forum nor do you have any authority! 🙄