Incels

[Theninetieswerebetter]

Is anyone watching ‘Untold’ on Channel 4?

I worry for my DD’s future

Haven't RTFT but had anyone mentioned porn? Because porn plays a huge role in this, I suspect (as does Reddit)

I work with some people with mild Learning disabilities and Autism. We were doing relationship workshops the difference between the male expectations and females omg. The males were saying they wanted a normal girlfriend who looked like a model, the females just said they wanted a man to go for dinner with and have hug, spend time together. Ironically the man who had the most success wasn't very choosey the other men would rip the piss out of him but he was the one having sex and getting girlfriends . There's definitely an ingrained male entitlement view that they would rather stay lonely than have to lower themselves.

How the fuck do you get more female ancestors than male ancestors? Every baby comes from one male and one female, that’s how sex works.

Exactly this. So it isn't just women who need to be afraid of incels, it is also men with partners.

I definitely think porn plays a massive part in it too. Which is why I never understand how some women are OK with their husbands/boyfriends watching porn. Let alone all of the other moral issues, like sex trafficking, that come into it.

I think you also have to look at societal expectations. A man alone gaming in his room is seen as some sort of weirdo. He should be going to the gym, hanging out with other “lads”, dating etc etc. That’s how society thinks men should be living when single. But why is it an issue if someone just prefers to be gaming?

The absolute kicker here, of course, is that more and more women than ever are gamers but their experiences in online gaming are awful. What with all the messages, private and otherwise and so on. And some of the women are stunning looking too - you'd think that gamer-incels would try being nice to them. But no

As pp said, it isn't even that they want a relationship, they all want to have [insert current stunning woman in the public eye] as their girlfriend, who is the perfect woman (what is it, loves sex and turns in to a pizza at midnight?). And to get this stunner, they don't want to do anything at all.

As for the insults towards single mothers - if fucking bollocking "men" wouldn't abandon their families when they divorce, but do what a responsible father would do and keep up with their father-role, this wouldn't be an issue. Far far from being women's fault, it is absent-fathers' fault. Incels probably see these absent disengaged fathers, living their best lives (possibly fathering more children) as Role Model Alpha Types.

There are lots of people who diss social science, but IIRC one of the things it has taught us is that if people of a similar "attractiveness" (as in superficially allocated on a scale of 1 to 10) - say two 6s - they have far more chance of staying together than if one is spectacularly more good looking than the other (this is not the only criteria, but i was interested when I read it. I'm sure i didn't dream it up)

@ConfusedNT has it absolutely spot-on.

Despite living in a patriarchal society, incels believe they oppressed by women. Never has there been an idea as ridiculous as it is offensive.

Apologies for a Daily Fail link, but this article clearly lays things out.

Real men don't act or think like incels or damn andrew tate. Real men respect themselves and women at the same time. My man isn't a fighter or an alpha. He's amazing, kind, cooks and cleans. Is hot in bed and still likes sport etc. He likes animals and adores our cat. The difference is he treats me as a person and not an object. Incels need to realise if they get out of their self serving drivel, then maybe they might start to live a wonderful life. It starts from yourself and how you treat yourself and others. No one in this world is entitled to anything or anyone. Women are not your enemy.

Plenty of incels could easily find girlfriends, the issue is these women they could land don't meet the standard they feel they deserve.

This, very much so. It isn't that the fat, plain or socially awkward women have rejected them, it's only that the beautiful, slim & "model" type women who they want have gone for someone else.

Well guess what? Women who are considered "below average" according to modern standards of beauty, femininity or social skills tend to be rejected by "above average" men. Doesn't turn us all into man hating violent people blaming society for unrealistic stereotypes and murdering good looking successful men. We just pick ourselves up and look around for someone who appreciates us for who we are as a person rather than on societal stereotypes, but many men don't seem to apply the same logic. You don't see very rich, powerful or famously good looking men with short, fat, plain or sour tempered women on their arm, they get their "pick" of the sweet beautiful women. Works both ways - if a woman is desirable enough to have her pick of men she can go for the one who can provide best for her or is the most attractive to her.

I was never particularly attracted to uber masculine "alpha males", violence isn't a turn on for me nor is entitlement. Give me a man who has a brain & uses it, is kind and considerate, is comfortable in their own skin, and without a chip on their shoulder because they think someone else has an advantage over them, and things like looks and physique don't really matter to me. If I was in the market for a partner, I would be very happy to meet someone who may be not particularly attractive, doesn't earn a fortune, and prefers gaming or watching history documentaries rather than playing sport all weekend then going out getting pissed.

Yes I can see a beautiful male body on the TV and admire it, or think "wouldn't kick THAT out of bed on a cold night", but that's just like window shopping at a really expensive shop you can't afford. I don't think "not fair, I deserve someone who looks like that" and blame it on society that this gorgeous looking 20 something won't look twice at a middle ages, plain fat woman.

Absolutely!

Incels are far from acting “in a feminine way” (whatever that means). They seem to be the most toxicly masculine ones out there!

I did Dippy

I think the easy availability of porn - particularly extreme porn - is hugely influential. And children seem to be accessing these sites at a very early and impressionable age, before they have had a chance to develop relationships and find out what true intimacy is.

I thought it very ironic that there was recent attempts to Bowdlerise Roald Dahl to "protect" child men from such words as "female", when those same children are just a click away from watching a girl being tortured and raped. Of course, there is another (AGP) agenda at play here, and it is linked to pornography

Omg, go away please!
Over 40% of incels self-report autism. The real number must be even higher.

Not all autistic men are incels. Not all incels are autistic. But it does seem a significant predisposing factor.

I have ADHD. The risk of addictions is high in dopamine lacking ADHD brains. I'm not addicted to substances but I see how that would be a draw. I'm addicted to risky behaviours and "projects" instead.

Please reread my comment before jumping to conclusions. I haven't blamed autism.

Okay and...? What's the point you're trying to make?

Incels, red pillers are mgtows always make me laugh with the "women are shallow" schtick ..... From the men who rate women on a 1 - 10 scale based almost entirely on looks, objectify them as "6's", "8s" etc.

If they're shallow, what are you.

And I agree with posters who said they are angry because they can't get a "7" or above, even though objectively they're probably not an equivalent 7 or above themselves and don't have the personality/social skills to compensate.

There are lots of people who diss social science, but IIRC one of the things it has taught us is that if people of a similar "attractiveness" (as in superficially allocated on a scale of 1 to 10) - say two 6s - they have far more chance of staying together than if one is spectacularly more good looking than the other (this is not the only criteria, but i was interested when I read it. I'm sure i didn't dream it up)

I remember this too @Brefugee - dozens of strong psychological studies have replicated these results. Where there is a huge disparity in physical attractiveness they only tend to stay together if there are other highly motivating factors eg money.

*and mgtows

I can answer that one from my personal experience.

Dh is a brilliant husband and father. He compliments me daily, comes home straight from work and spends all his spare time with myself and the dc's - he's the epitome of a family man. The money he earns is spent on making life better for us as a family - he is generous and would give me his last tenner rather than spend it on himself. He respects me and the sacrifices I have made for our family (giving up work to be a sahm) and supports me in my choices. He respects women and is bringing up our dd's to believe they can do whatever they like in life if they put their mind to it. He respects and admires his parents and is generous and complimentary in regards to them.

The fact he is highly intelligent, hard working and earns a lot of money are obviously desirable traits too - but the thing I love most about him is how well he treats me, the fact he is very secure in who he is and that he always puts his family first.

He isn't some toxic, aggressive money-making machine as you seem to suggest all successful men must be - you've been watching too much "Wolf of Wall Street"!

And, at the more extreme scale of their across-the-board extremism, are terrorists.

And need taking seriously as such.

Ateotd it's just more entitlement, selfish es, total lack of empathy and toddler like "I want what I want and I want I now, and if I don't get it I'm going to tear things up".

It's also worth noting that it's all based on some sort of totally flawed expectation that everybody is getting sex all the time. Which is not true and has never been true. People in the past spent long periods chaste or celibate, sometimes their entire lives.

Women might be able to get sex all the time if it's no strings - because fk many men would fuck literally anything - but that's not a positive thing for women usually, and rarely something they're looking for at all or ongoing. They're too dumb and lacking in empathy to see that too.

My 20yr old son is autistic and describes himself as asexual. He has no interest whatsoever in having sex.

It's clear Jake the shotgun fanatic who murdered people in Plymouth was autistic It is also clear he had bugger all input and support after leaving his special school.

My worry for young autistic men is that in not feeling like they fit in, they can be ripe for exploitation and grooming.

My son left college at age 19 and all support services ceased. He quite simply became non-existent to any kind of service. He is isolated socially and mentally. He is in fact ripe for the picking by any extremist group who would offer him friendship and a sense of belonging.

That scares me.

Thankfully I know to find support for him and he will be starting a life skills group soon which will give him that social input with others like him.

Other young autistic men do not have that support.

'When you're accustomed to privilege, equality looks like oppression'.

After taking umbrage at the term promiscuous for women who are sexually liberated, I found myself having the most bizarre conversation with a man who was very clearly a misogynist and an incel to boot. Why an incel? Because he was using the black pill argument - fatalistic idea that an incel cannot improve their own situation and should accept their fate of unattractiveness, lack of wealth or social status - to justify his reasons for calling women who got more sex than him promiscuous.

Being entitled to sex is a huge factor to being an incel.

The cherry on the cake was the misogynist in question calling me an antagonistic little harpy. What a way to prove my points 😂

Absolutely!

The point?
I'm sick of people (women) shutting down facts with "that's not nice" arguments.

I'm not neuro-typical. I'd rather research help me navigate my mental beast, than occlude information in case it offends someone.

And to the Autism Fighter: this thread isn't about traits of Autism. It's about Incels. Go and fight your fight on threads were posters are being mean about Autism and other Neurological conditions. It's not here.