AIBU to think my DH sounds like an dick

[SandroSandra]

Opinions on this conversation pls. We live in a small old scruffy cottage and have 2 small kids

I commented to DH that restoration isn't so much of a joy when you have to work full time and you've got kids (inspired by a thread on here i was reading this morning) and that isn't it frustrating our cottage is still so scruffy and broken even though we've been here 3 years.

He said "ah well that's the thing about feminism innit. Women want to work but guess what there isn't enough time to make a nice home too"

I said "well it's more that most couples both need to work these days to pay the bills"

He said "sure of course but just odd all these women stressing that they want perfect homes, following restoration accounts and Mrs hinch on Instagram. But no woman has time to do any of it so just make you all feel guilty. It's almost like it was a good idea to have someone stay at home because guess what making a beautiful home is a full time job and adding restoration on top of it - it's impossible"

And I said "but men could stay home if they wanted"

He said "but we don't want to really. You were the ones that wanted to change the model and set up and then you're all stressing out you don't have time to do it all"

He then started saying

"Oh course there is a theory that the Rockefella family made feminism a success just to get 50% of the working people working their arse off and paying tax. And women fell for it"

Does he sound like a dick? It really wound me up but he insists whats he's saying is just logical.

I've seen this sort of thing on misogynistic sites, feminism was a ploy. Everyone used to be able to afford a nice house, lots of kids and a fantastic traditional lifestyle, with only the man working. Women have given up their true role as wives and mother, waiting on their man hand, foot and finger while bringing up perfect story book children in an immaculate house with white picket fences. This was never true of course, just a rose tinted view of the past, but once men keep reinforcing each others opinions on the perfect family life they are missing out on (because of the actions of misled feminist women) you can't reason with them.

I'd be looking at where he's getting these opinions, some of these sites are really toxic.

And I said "but men could stay home if they wanted"
He said "but we don't want to really."

This ^^

Everyone interpreting this conversation as the OP's DH having sexist views is completely missing the point. There is no pressure emanating from the OP's DH to have a tidy house. He is not expecting the OP to work and keep a tidy house. His position is quite clear, and fairly egalitarian.

1. He prefers to work full time and accepts he doesn't have time/energy to keep the house tidy.
2. He is happy for the OP to work full time (if that's what she wants); He'd also be happy for her to be a SAHM (if that's what she wants). But he recognises that there aren't enough hours in the day for the OP to do both.

For all those saying "but if he did more housework then the OP could have it all ..." see point 1. He doesn't want to work 1.5 jobs just so OP can work 1.5 jobs. He wants to work 1.0 jobs.

It is the OP (and by extension, all feminists) who wanted to add 1.0 paid work jobs to 1.0 home-making jobs but can't cope with 2.0 jobs. Which isn't surprising, because no man can, either - not in the long run. The difference being, few men expect to. The pressure comes entirely from other women.

I'd guess he took your comment about the house as criticism that he hasn't finished it, and lashed out accordingly. If you clarify you weren't criticising him, you'd probably see him soften very quickly

I remember my mother robbing Peter to pay Paul. Ducking down and staying quiet when the insurance man came was standard practice. There was no lovely home unless you were well off. The rest of us were poor. Shoes mended inside with cardboard until there was enough money, and clothes worn well after their use because we had the cheek to grow

He’s right though. Most of the women on Mumsnet are run ragged doing jobs that they don’t really enjoy. The ideal situation surely would be that one half of the couple stayed at home making the home beautiful and creating a relaxing environment for everyone. They’d also have time to spend on themselves. He also said that running a home is a full time job when most men seem to come home to SAHMs and ask them what they did all day. If he thought that the woman was inferior then of course that’s wrong but he didn’t say that.

He’s saying that feminism has made many women’s lives a lot worse and I completely agree.

This. Although much more than this.

What a fucking bellend

His wife has to work because he doesn't earn enough

Wanker

@Mark19735

Except its bullshit that you can't work 1.5 jobs.

He doesn't get to decide that he doesn't want to do the. 5

He lives in the house, he agreed to enter into family life

The. 5 is as much his responsibility as hers and he doesn't get to absolve himself from it

@RemoteControlDoobry

'The ideal situation surely would be that one half of the couple stayed at home making the home beautiful and creating a relaxing environment for everyone.'

Absolutely not my ideal.

Could not think of anything worse

My grandfather had that view. “Women should stay at home to look after the house and the children, then there would be more jobs for men and women don’t want to work anyway and they don’t even need a good education.”

Such outdated crap! I’m shocked that your DH thinks like my grandfather did @SandroSandra .

I agree with the PP about the toxic websites. You just need to read some of the posts on here to see how much misinformation exists and how insidious it is. People are completely misunderstanding history, feminism, the labour market, - opting instead for a hugely sexist interpretation that blames everything on women and feminism - even though they clearly haven't read a single feminist theory or a single history book about the women's rights movement.

Your DH wanted to avoid any discussion about expectations on him. And funnily enough all the posters on here who know nothing about feminism (except that it's to blame for all the world's ills ) are harking back to a halycon time where women stayed home ... but aren't remembering that in any household with strict gender roles, your DH would have been responsible for renovation work and would have been expected to be the highest earner. He's not fulfilling any of his traditional roles.

May have been said in a wrong way but actually I agree with him

Feminism was responsible for house prices/rent and living costs escalating far beyond wages?

(hence the push to euthanasia and to try to eradicate disability).

I prefer to believe that 'push' is more about trying to ensure human beings have a decent quality of life @VictorStrand ,

And funnily enough all the posters on here who know nothing about feminism (except that it's to blame for all the world's ills

I take it that’s parody. Feminism has achieved a huge amount in my lifetime and I’m a second wave feminist but I’m not going to pretend it’s been an unadulterated success with no downside. This is the downside.

You are clearly not married to an Architect (joke) as it is my DH who is better/obsessed the aesthetic of our domestic environment. I actually don't care enough and since when have women who were housewives in the past ended up on restoration projects! Not really comparative to keeping a tidy house!

I’d say that if your husband can only trace women in paid employment and the growth of ‘feminism’ (!) to a US industrialist he’s a wee bit thick. This is an Andrew Tate/incel theory.

He has some good points about Instagram and impossible standards, especially with people working full time.

Also, the idea of 'work life' balance, which is a feminist theory, was a way for employers to make burn out and stress the employees' problems.

My DH can be critical of 'the feminists' when I challenge him on this he often backs down saying 'not you and not all feminists'. He means the women campaigning for stuff that is naturally occurring, such as, now more women are working full time and getting promoted it is starting g to equalise. Sometimes, I get annoyed as our politics are not totally aligned, and expecting that would be impossible.

However, we do have shared values, like not lying to ourselves and trying to be fair and kind to others. I would suggest working on what your shared values are and what our your goals for the family. Like saving up to pay for renovation work to the cottage. If you can't agree on those then there's an issue

He has some good points about Instagram and impossible standards

Perhaps, but I doubt his sexism didn't exist before social media.

@Blossomtoes

What is the downside to equal rights for women?

I read a comment yest that said, feminism has gone too far.

Yeah right. We haven't even managed to achieve the main aims but it's definitely gone too far

🙄

He sounds great! Tell him he is absolutely right and that you are quitting your job tomorrow, but of course he'll need to cover all the bills and expenses to make the house nice...

There's greater pressure socially to have a show-home, I think. All these telly programmes about decor and doing up houses constantly.

In my granny's generation, if you were lucky enough to afford it, you had one smart room (the drawing room, she called it) basically for the purpose of receiving the vicar/posh visitors and you didn't use it otherwise. I was sometimes allowed in there to play but it was a Big Deal. The rest of the house was a bit scruffy and run-down.

There's never been a halcyon time where working class women stayed home and kept a show-home. They worked, just not in as visible ways as the men.

Not bullshit.

The anti-capitalist posters on here will confirm that if working 1.5 jobs was sustainable in the long run, corporates would be lobbying for a standard 60hr working week. (In salaried roles that are exempted from the working time directive, that is already the norm anyhow - hence so many people, men and women, being burnt out).

And, as a point of order, he does get to decide he doesn't want to do the 0.5. That is what autonomy means. It's the OP who wants to divorce him for it ... her choice. Her bed. She can lie in it. He still get's to decide whether or not to do the extra 0.5.

The only bullshit I'd call out is the myth that running a household really is a 1.0 role. A very diligent and fussy person could probably find things to do to occupy 40hrs, but in reality anyone who outsources this work will find that 2-3hrs cleaning, 2-3hrs laundry, 1hr shopping, and 15hrs wraparound childcare is plenty to live in a clean, respectable house. That's about 20hrs ... the bullshit comes from MN users pretending the other 20 consist of 'mental load' which is in some way equally exhausting to actual work, when in reality it's just procrastination masquerading is inefficiency.

I read a comment yest that said, feminism has gone too far.

There has never, ever been a time when there weren't complaints that feminism had gone too far. It's not even worth responding to any more. It's just a waste of time.

@ReneBumsWombats

No, I didn't respond. It did make me eye roll though

He's massively back pedalling there because he knows that his first statement was hugely misogynistic. Asshole.