AIBU to think my DH sounds like an dick

[SandroSandra]

Opinions on this conversation pls. We live in a small old scruffy cottage and have 2 small kids

I commented to DH that restoration isn't so much of a joy when you have to work full time and you've got kids (inspired by a thread on here i was reading this morning) and that isn't it frustrating our cottage is still so scruffy and broken even though we've been here 3 years.

He said "ah well that's the thing about feminism innit. Women want to work but guess what there isn't enough time to make a nice home too"

I said "well it's more that most couples both need to work these days to pay the bills"

He said "sure of course but just odd all these women stressing that they want perfect homes, following restoration accounts and Mrs hinch on Instagram. But no woman has time to do any of it so just make you all feel guilty. It's almost like it was a good idea to have someone stay at home because guess what making a beautiful home is a full time job and adding restoration on top of it - it's impossible"

And I said "but men could stay home if they wanted"

He said "but we don't want to really. You were the ones that wanted to change the model and set up and then you're all stressing out you don't have time to do it all"

He then started saying

"Oh course there is a theory that the Rockefella family made feminism a success just to get 50% of the working people working their arse off and paying tax. And women fell for it"

Does he sound like a dick? It really wound me up but he insists whats he's saying is just logical.

Whose idea was the restoration project? Was it a joint idea?

The bigger picture @ShimmeringShirts is feeling distant from my husband and feeling really sad about it.

I can't work out if what he says is really awful or if I'm in just a negative mindset about him.

And most of all I don't know if I can leave someone because I feel disconnected from them awhen my kids lives would be so so much worse. But with all this in my head every day....my happiness vs my kids happiness...when he says stuff like what he said this morning I feel like bursting into tears but im trying to work out if I've lost all perspective. Hence the thread.

Do you say all of this to him? If so, fears his response?

• Why isn’t he earning enough to fulfil this SAHM fantasy?
• As he’s such a sexist ’traditionalist’, why are you, a mere woman, out earning him?
• If he thinks it’s impossible to have the ideal home when you both work, why isn’t he willing to stay at home?

Have you asked all of these questions?

I'd tell him, he better get a better paying job then to provide and be a proper man to make it viable. 😂

You’re the higher earner, he’s a twat, if you can pay the mortgage on the cottage yourself I’d ditch him tomorrow.

Yeah.

@AlmostaMamma no, I didn't ask him any of those questions. I just went quiet after making a couple of half hearted points... and waited for him go stop talking so I could go to work.

And I don't really want to put the idea in his head of him leaving his job to be honest as a) he would do fuck all b) if this all gets worse and I do want to leave him - ill lose my kids if he's made himself the SAHP.

I mean he sounds dickish anyway, but if he doesn't care about the state of the house then I suppose you can't call him a hypocrite.

This. My nana was raising a family from 1940s onwards and had to work 2 jobs as well as my grandad, so did most the aunties. They all seemed to live on the same street and the kids used to get shuffled round the houses while each aunt took a turn to watch them before it was their turn to go to work

He expressed an opinion without checking with you first. Bastard !.

So essentially he's saying the reason the renovations haven't happened is because you've got the audacity to have a job which (presumably) is paying for the house in the first place.

I sincerely hope that you've exaggerated what he's said because if my husband said those things to me he'd find himself having to work 3 jobs to make up for my salary after I left him.

I think you should leave.

He’s sexist (and illogical) and you’re so miserable and defeated that you’re not even putting up a fight. In a few years, you’ll probably start agreeing with him. How terrifying is that?

Equally terrifying is the idea of your children growing up hearing and believing this sort of garbage.

I love Mumsnet! ❤️

If you have space, I'd get rid of him and get a nice lodger in instead. Maybe a female student or something, depending on where you live.

You'll get some rent money, child maintenance and hopefully a pleasant adult around who pulls their weight. And you'll lose the peacocking neanderthal.

I can sort of see what he’s saying but I wouldn’t have expressed it quite like that. In my mind it’s more that these days in a heterosexual couple both people either chose to or have to work, but a lot of expectation of domestic things still falls on women, so women are stuck in this impossible position of working outside the home and still being expected to do most of the work inside it. Whether that expectation comes from ourselves, our partner, social media, society, other family members…it’s definitely still there more than it’s not. Even for couples who share the domestic load equally, you only have to look at these boards to find examples of mother in laws telling daughter in laws to keep the house tidier (as if their son doesn’t also live there), or women not wanting a friend to drop in if the house if messy because they feel they’ll be judged for the mess.

I bristle at “you were the ones who wanted to change the model” though! Did I create the system where house prices rose 20 times faster than the average salary until it became almost impossible to own a home on a single salary?? Cos if I did it was an accident and I’d like a do-over please!

@toodlesofoodles I don't think I've exaggerated it.

If he read this thread he'd argue back and say something like

"But I'm not insisting women stay at home. I'm just saying unless you pay for cleaners and handymen all the time, it's very hard to have a nice home if you're both working. And yet women still feel pressured to have nice homes. And I think feminism has made things harder for women in that sense"

I think he would argue he's not being sexist just logical.

Short answer- yes he's a dick and I'd struggle to stay with a man who held those views.

Slightly longer answer- well, he's not wrong that having two parents working FT outside the home puts a strain on families. The dickishness is in (inter alia)-

• His assumption that it should be men who work and women who stay at home.
• His way of using "you" and "we" as if he speaks for all men and you for all women.
• His assumption that there was ever a time when the majority of women spent their days plumping cushions- working class women have always worked. The changes of the last 60 years have been around women having careers and financial independence, rather than women finally getting off their arses and going to work. We were always working.
• His presentation of all this as some sort of gotcha on feminism.

He sounds awful, to be honest, and as if he's been spending time on MRA/MGTOW sites.

Perhaps clumsy but he's not wrong, women are pressured by society and often by other women, to believe not that they can do anything but they can/should do everything, say they can have a hinch home (personally can't stand the smell of Dettol and feeling like I'm living my life in grey scale) and a high performing career/academic life, ponies week grinned perfectly behaved highly achieving children. Men don't face the same pressure and largely don't care. House is a mess doesn't matter come on over, whereas you see women on here flapping about guests and not having the right towels laundered when working 60 hours a week in professional jobs.

Yes he’s a dick. He’s technically correct about the need for double income households etc…

But I hate the way on this side of the debate debate it’s positioned as women wanting to work just to act out some Working Girl feminist role play. Like we just do it so can carry a briefcase and look corporate. It’s about money and financial independence. Critically about independence from this sort of bullshit.

It’s also completely inconsistent. If he were the breadwinner and was unhappy being involved in this restoration project (which presumably benefits him financially and in other ways) and thinks it would be better if you were devoted to it full time it would at least be logical. But he can’t both imply you need to do more in the home and not bring in more money.

ponies week grinned perfectly behaved highly achieving children.
This should read
plus well groomed, perfectly behaved highly achieving children.
Not sure where the ponies came from, but why not yes you can have ponies too

You'd leave him over this?

I mean, I see his point.. Maybe not wholly eloquently put but I see it..

Why don't you try having a reasoned debate about it all and you might find you're able to reconnect - at the moment it's only putting more distance between ye..

When I've followed through on conversations with my husband we usually end up in a place where we understand each more more and realise we had misinterpreted each other slightly..

There'll probably be posters coming along now to disparage what I'm saying but I honestly understand where he's coming from and definitely would have a proper conversation..

@JennyDarlingRIP ha ha! Yes I thought you were making a point about those high achieving children grinning while riding ponies. Which sounds about right!

Feminism isn't to blame for societal ideals around appearance

I mean, I agree with him if this is his further argument to be honest and I did get a glimpse in your original post that he was, in a way, sympathising with women today..
Its true, there's been a huge explosion into having the perfect home but no change at all in the expectation women should still have their career too..
I honestly don't see what's so bad about what he's saying
Maybe it depends on your own upbringing, personal circumstances what you see from his words..

Well I couldn't live with someone wigth those views but I'd have worked that out before comitting to them.