AIBU to think my DH sounds like an dick

[SandroSandra]

Opinions on this conversation pls. We live in a small old scruffy cottage and have 2 small kids

I commented to DH that restoration isn't so much of a joy when you have to work full time and you've got kids (inspired by a thread on here i was reading this morning) and that isn't it frustrating our cottage is still so scruffy and broken even though we've been here 3 years.

He said "ah well that's the thing about feminism innit. Women want to work but guess what there isn't enough time to make a nice home too"

I said "well it's more that most couples both need to work these days to pay the bills"

He said "sure of course but just odd all these women stressing that they want perfect homes, following restoration accounts and Mrs hinch on Instagram. But no woman has time to do any of it so just make you all feel guilty. It's almost like it was a good idea to have someone stay at home because guess what making a beautiful home is a full time job and adding restoration on top of it - it's impossible"

And I said "but men could stay home if they wanted"

He said "but we don't want to really. You were the ones that wanted to change the model and set up and then you're all stressing out you don't have time to do it all"

He then started saying

"Oh course there is a theory that the Rockefella family made feminism a success just to get 50% of the working people working their arse off and paying tax. And women fell for it"

Does he sound like a dick? It really wound me up but he insists whats he's saying is just logical.

The need for two people to work to keep the ship afloat is a product of the economy, not feminism.

Also the period where women typically stayed at home (20 years after the Second World War) was an anomaly, not the normative pattern as many people seem to believe. For most of history except for very wealthy people both partners have had to work.

Also you say feminism has "done us no favours" but you're missing one really critical advantage of feminism: being able to work means OP can support herself independently of this bloke and get rid of this bloke.

@Whattodonut sums it up quite right
If someone pops round our house and the dishes aren’t done or there’s mess everywhere it’s me they look at.
No one seems to ever recognise that I work full time aswell and dh has been home that morning.
Although to be fare we do share cooking and other stuff. It’s the maintenance and cleaning that dh just constantly resists.

This weekend for example I’ll be lime rendering some walls internally where the modern plaster has fallen off, it’s not a small patch either an entire wall. But that’s fare enough, equality and all that…..just wondering if he will do the cleaning at the same time. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

OP I think if you can afford it employ decorators etc for any maintenance. Otherwise start it yourself and he might be shamed into helping…it occasionally works.

It’s his attitude that is worrying. If he wants a one working person household that’s a financial decision for most and you’re the main earner….. Although it sounds like it wouldn’t make a difference anyway.
We are Damned if you do damned if you don’t these days.

He’s shown you who he is OP

Funny that you think working is seen as the holy grail when all I see is the opposite

You obviously haven’t been on MN long in that case. Read this thread, it will be an eye opener.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/thirty_days_only/4747454-he-wants-space-after-30-years-of-marriage?page=1

Feminism doesn't say that working outside the home is the only way to have a meaningful existence. It is capitalism that says that earning money is the meaning of life and that earning capital is how you determine the value of a person (hence the push to euthanasia and to try to eradicate disability).

I actually think he's been watching too much telly. Lots of extreme narrow mindedness that seems to be on the telly and directed at men these days.

The fear that men could actually be equal rather than superior when it comes to financing the home is dull.
If he opened a history book he would see quite a few examples of how it's not accurate that Rockefeller manipulated anything.

Women have always worked - always. Look at census records where it states that they were dairy farmer wives, seamstress, nurses and many other jobs. And it was wars that forced men out of the workforce leaving space for women to juggle mothering and employment.

Notice what happened in that conversation with your husband.

You expressed frustration at the pace of the work on the cottage renovation.

He neatly deflected any responsibility for this and then pulled one of his Deflection Cards from his back pocket.

He pulled the conversation AWAY from the intimate relationship about your family situation and your shared responsibility for your home, and he tossed a hornet's nest into your thoughts box.
(that should keep her busy!)

@Blossomtoes

Ive been on sm/chat forums and alive long enough to know that most people think mums of young children shouldnt work unless they have absolutely no other option.

Working mothers are relentlessly judged.

A few threads on Mumsnet doesn't change that

I dunno. My Mum (rest her soul), used to say that women got conned into thinking that they could "have it all" (aka work full time, raise a family and keep house), and are now running themselves ragged (because the men didn't step up at home), whereas, in the olden days women weren't juggling so much, and the men brought home the bacon. I do kind of see her point.

She firmly believed that women should be able to work, as far up the ladder as they wanted, but that feminism had made it an expectation for all women, and that it made women feel as though they were failing if they couldn't manage to juggle all of these responsibilities.

How many women would choose this level of daily grind, if they won the lottery tomorrow? Not many, I don't think.

Yeah, he sounds like a dick.

@BeachBlondey

I have it all and would absolutely keep working if I won the lottery

I can't bear not working for long periods so while I might not keep up my existing job, I'd have to do something

there is a theory that the Rockefella family made feminism a success just to get 50% of the working people working their arse off and paying tax. And women fell for it"

Or maybe we were invaded by invisible alien lizard-people who stole our brains ….

Or maybe women created the feminist movement to, you know, give us more freedom, increase our choices and improve our lives?

He sounds like a dick and as PP say it economics not feminism that led to most now needing two wages as as otehr note in most past times working women worked for economic and ramp capitalists reasons.

but just odd all these women stressing that they want perfect homes, following restoration accounts and Mrs hinch on Instagram. But no woman has time to do any of it so just make you all feel guilty

I do wonder if this is an issue though* *- is this something you do ?

I do find it's other women who judge the state of my house and that seems to related just to me - even though DH and 3 teens also live here all just as capable as me of doing house stuff.

I used to eye roll when people commented on my then young kids having toys out when they came in but it's only in recent years I've managed not to go into cleaning frenzy when MIL is about to visit.

In other words you can’t be arsed with anything that challenges your view.

@BeachBlondey’s mum was spot on. It is the expectation that’s the killer.

It’s impossible to say who is wrong. You haven’t given enough info.

It sounds like he is sick of you complaining about the house not being instagram perfect but who knows…

@Blossomtoes

It's not a case of not being arsed.

A few Mumsnet threads doesn't disprove what I think.

There's lots of research if youd care to challenge your view.

A recent survey of societal attitudes proves what I've said

Keeping financial independence is never a bad idea

Ha! Get him to read up on the many women who worked during the first and second world wars. And then the menz came back and turfed them out of their roles 🙄

If someone pops round our house and the dishes aren’t done or there’s mess everywhere it’s me they look at. - what strange "someones" pop in at your place! And why would you care, even if you think this is true?

The critical factor that has derailed women's lives is the economy and also higher expectations. It sounded fine in principle, and is clearly right, that women should have equal rights in education and the workplace. But in a situation where two incomes are required to meet basic needs (especially housing) in a family the flexibility for either partner to work part-time and for life to have some balance has been blown out of the water.

At the moment everyone is missing out: everyone is running around chasing their tails; and pre-school children have less contact with their parents than might be ideal for either party. No-one wins.

What he's saying does sound have some kind of logic to it.
Women wanted to have the choice to work outside the home so we would have more power and control over our lives.
Now there is no choice, merely expectation and necessity.
My mother was a 'housewife' and my life isn't better than hers was.

I grant him a point in the sense that yes woman did and do want equality BUT why is it STILL something so hard to truly achieve all these years in on…

Well the answer to that would be Men - many men have no wish to share the domestic load equally, many do not wish to share the parental load in equal measure either. Those same men often still like to rely and count in their partners wages when it comes to finances though…funny that eh! The way the economy is built these days is takes 2 wages to afford the very basics of family life.

Yes it is all very well and good that women can be in the workplace but unless the domestic/parenting/mental load is shared equally, then things are not equal at all.

I also absolutely hate that the responsibility is placed on the shoulders of the woman to pick a good man/father, why is a good man/father the exception and not just the rule! This sentiment assumes as we all have some crystal ball that tells us that the seemingly wonderful boyfriend will turn out to be a wonderful father and husband who shares the load equally and who will still be supportive of your career even when it impacts his own because of childcare or whatever. Far to many women have fallen into that particular trap, because let’s face it it’s pretty bloody easy to be all equal when there is only 2 of you, but somehow when a baby/children enter the mix then this seems to go out the window. Then what are the woman’s choices when the wonderful boyfriend turns out to be a crap husband/father 1) be a single mother and do it all alone, or 2) stay together and just do most of it alone. It’s really not hard to understand why so many women feel trapped or stay in crap relationships.

In short, yes he sounds like a dick! A dick who is happy to have all the things, but only if you do most it.

This. And middle and upper class women could only keep their houses "nice" with the help of additional help i.e. working class men and women!

there is a theory that the Rockefella family made feminism a success just to get 50% of the working people working their arse off and paying tax. And women fell for it"

It was world wars and labour shortages that led to governments seeing tax benefits to more workers- now it often driven by ageing population meaning increasing debt burden on tax payer thus governments desire many more tax payers

I think feminism was more about having choice to work and then getting access to the better jobs and when getting them getting paid the same for the same amount of work.

Many countries then put in support for parents and others didn't and ones were there is little support and little societies encouraging or expectation of men mucking in more to pick up slack have often had the most dramatic birth rate drops - often leading to faster aging populations and thus more pressure to have more workers.

He does have a point though. People expect to have it all, watch others who ‘have it all’ or perfect homes and what not but it’s really not possible to do it ALL. But we still complain about it 😂

I agree with him. We all have our own definition of feminism.

@LookingOldTheseDays · Today 10:16
When was this fictional past time when women didn't work?
Working class women have always worked. They've always had to.

When I was a child we were the only family on our street with a twin tub washer. The rest of them had a dolly and a posser and a mangle.
My mother had to work. We could not have managed if she didn't and there were plenty of children like us who let ourselves in after school and had to wait for mum to come home
Women started going out to work because people were dirt poor but the expectation when you got married was that the woman stayed at home and the man worked.
Perhaps if they had paid my father a decent wage then my mother would not have had to work plus raising four children and doing all the housework.
Let's not be naïve here, most women work because two wages are needed for families to have a decent life, but not all women want to.
It's a shame that two wages are not enough now. Sorry if this derailed the thread