Childfree people ranting about parents

[the7Vabo]

Came across a thread on another site full of people ranting about children entitled “parents not everything is about you.” I get it to a point, as a parent I think society has become somewhat a overly child-centred. I assume however that the odd stories you see about parents demanding people give up train seats for ten year olds are just that, the odd story of unreasonable behaviour that people in all groups can be guilty of.

The extent of the comments on that thread baffled me. Full of I’m so glad I don’t have children because X, Y. It’s one thing to want to be child free which to me is a perfectly valid life choice, but I’m baffled by the level of bitching about parents & children. If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them about how fulfilled they are while at the same time ranting about how terrible it would be to have kids.

This all makes sense, thanks

@Forgooodnesssakenow The MN feminism section, particularly the GC section. Their literally isn't another UK resource like it that I know of.

If you can signpost me to another large talk forum used mostly by women, with a largely GC slant, please do.

Otherwise I will keep using this resource and dissenting mummies will just need to cope.

"you'll change your mind if you meet the right person, or you might meet someone who already has children...."

Not realising that if they wanted children, they wouldn’t be the right person!

To be honest I don’t think that way myself and while I’m obviously aware that there are stereotypes around certain topics I wouldn’t have expected, for example someone to say they pity childfree people in response to my post. That thinking is outdated to me.

I also assumed that being childfree in the sense that I meant it (and I appreciate not everyone uses the language in the same black & white manner I did) would mean you wouldn’t really care about intrusive comments as much given you chose not to have children & would therefore just dismiss them rather than finding them hurtful.

More than anything I’m horrified that anyone who has lost a baby or suffered from infertility took anything I said as meaning that I feel they don’t have a right to participate in any conversation.

I am probably coloured by my own life experience. I have a childfree friend who had been adamant since she was a child herself that she doesn’t want kids & also doesn’t want to be around them. She is very content person & if anyone commented on her life choice I can’t see her caring, although I could be wrong of course, But that’s probably unique enough to her, she’s a character.

I also have a friend on a fertility journey and I don’t know what to say at this stage. The other day I responded to her with “fingers crossed for you” and then mentally kicked myself for the rest of the day for saying something which sounds so trite about something so significant.

I also assumed that being childfree in the sense that I meant it (and I appreciate not everyone uses the language in the same black & white manner I did) would mean you wouldn’t really care about intrusive comments as much given you chose not to have children & would therefore just dismiss them rather than finding them hurtful.

It's not that the comments are hurtful, they just get tedious and irritating.

Not realising that if they wanted children, they wouldn’t be the right person!

Meeting the right person really cemented the issue for me - why would I have wanted to change anything when the two of us together felt so perfect?

Being childfree does not automatically mean you are strong/emotionally resilient/don’t give a shit what anyone says. Very few people truly don’t care what anyone else says about them. It just means you don’t want children. Just because I don’t want children doesn’t mean I can’t be hurt or offended when people say nasty things about my lifestyle choice.

And it’s quite different to other choices - I wear loud coloured clothes and truly don’t care what other people think about that. However if I really cared and it bothered me, I could wear grey. However it’s not really an option for me to have kids because I want to avoid people’s comments! Well, it would be a terrible reason to have them for sure.

Out of curiosity how old was the child you declined to give up your seat for?

@the7Vabo did you go to uni?

Yes that’s a very valid point.

Is that comment directed at my punctuation?

Absolutely! Also remember that a lot of the people commenting are probably 'childless' rather than 'childfree' and that most of the 'childfree' will be constantly judged for their choice.

That’s just nonsense. I am, or was, childless not by choice but I think choosing not to have kids is a perfectly valid choice. I’m not and never have been upset by people making that choice.

Not at all! Mine own is weird

I've awritten about how childless are often also childfree in another post, as in they have made the decision to not have children because the cost (financial, medical, mental) is too high

because of that they therefore come in for some similar judgement to childfree

I haven't tried hard enough to be mum, I should have paid for another round of IVF because going into debt is worth it for the joy of being a mum, but you could try to adopt if you really want to be a mum - what don't you want to be a mum enough, its unnatural that you wouldn't try any means necessary, you are odd, you are missing out etc etc

So there are some similarities in the comments as in we get judged for not wanting children 'enough' and childfree people get judged for not wanting children at all

But I do think childfree people get more intrusive questions, like if I say that ivf didn't work that often shuts people down because they don't want to be insensitive but they would question a childfree person way past the point of insensitivity on many occasions

And like on here where its basically come to 'its okay for you to be here because you wanted children but not for those other posters who didn't want children'

So I would agree that childfree people can come up against more persistent, intrusive judgement which is probably easier for me to shut down with a detailed description of my reproductive system issues

Where else have we heard 'we don't want people like them, but you are alright we don't mean you'....

Ahhh Sistine chapel! Mine was Korean Grandma in the garden

Out of curiosity how old was the child you declined to give up your seat for?

Why does it matter? If the kid was young enough to require a seat then they could have sat on their parents lap, if they were too big to sit on their lap but the parent was adamant they needed a seat, then the parent should have given up their own seat.

But it often seems to be a stranger that is asked rather than the parent inconveniencing themselves for their own children

I don’t know if you mean on here as in this thread or more broadly.

I see your point.

I’m sure it’s not always a consolation but I think a lot of what you have described doesn’t necessarily come from a bad place, but it’s still inappropriate. I think a lot of people have a desire to be helpful & I’m sure “why don’t you adopt” isn’t in any way helpful and I think that person would realise that if they really thought about it, but they don’t mean to be hurtful.

In an ideal world people would leave both childfree & those who don’t have children not by choice alone. But in a non-ideal world you’d have to be a special kind of asshole to badger a childless person or perhaps just have no sense of what’s appropriate.

I have a friend going through IVF. I’m not overly close to the details as she doesn’t discuss them. I find myself at a loss most of the time when it comes to texting her. I want to say something but I don’t know what to say.

I’ve never come across this apart from in Daily Mail articles. There was one the other day where a cheeky dad put his child in a window seat of a plane someone had paid for and then said “she’s a child” when the paying passenger arrived. Gross behaviour IMO. A small child is going to scream blue murder in that circumstance & daddy dearest wanted to guilt a stranger with that & presumably have everyone else listening to it.

Absolutely more broadly but certainly there have been some examples of the crappy behaviour we encounter on this thread

Why don't you adopt is annoying but I can understand it might be well meaning

However you do get the odd soul who will argue that no matter how many times childless people ask them not to say that they are quite right to say it because a couple struggling with infertility might not have thought of it unless they suggest it. Because obviously our brains fall out when we can't conceive.

They are in the same line of people as the 'just relax, go on holiday' people who apparently don't understand that if relaxing worked we'd have been pregnant years ago, infertility rarely starts with thermometers and injections it usually starts the same way as most couples, going off contraception to see what happens

In terms of your friend I can only speak for me, not all people going through Ivf but I found it easier to deal with my friends who didn't ask a lot of questions. My only friend I really confided in was the one who had just been through IVF herself so understood the process.

Personally I would tell her that you are there if she wants to talk or wants a hug but if she also prefers to not talk about it you will respect that

Ivf can be all consuming mentally and emotionally and it can be a relief to be talking to someone who doesn't ask all about it so you can feel 'normal' for awhile (also because some people are so nosy I got to the point where I felt like asking them what sex position they were in when they got pregnant because it was the same level of nosiness)

@Tandora

"Out of curiosity how old was the child you declined to give up your seat for?"

I would guess they were around 6/7 ish.

In case it's relevant to your asking, my reasons for refusing were first, that I had paid to travel whereas children travel free, which I believe entitles me to a seat more than them, and second, I'm in the second half of my 40s travelling home from work, I'm tired, whereas the child is young, fit and seemingly healthy, therefore able to stand quite easily.
In this instance parent and child got on together, neither had a seat, parent asked me whether I would give my seat to the child. My response was a very clear no.

Moving away from current attitudes towards childfree people, I wonder whether negative attitudes towards that choice will change fairly rapidly, given that choosing to be childfree is more far common than in previous generations?

I’m guessing that in 20/25 years, choosing to be childfree won’t elicit much reaction, because it’ll have become a social norm, IYSWIM. It’s rather like women pursuing challenging careers instead of staying at home - that was less common in the 1950’s, but it’s completely normal now.

I 100% think this, and in fact I thought we were nearer to that point in terms of attitudes than this thread would suggest.

I think climate change will be a huge driver of fundamental change across the board.

Im always baffled by the Instagram families with them ten plus kids. Do people still give that little of a shit about climate change?!