Childfree people ranting about parents

[the7Vabo]

Came across a thread on another site full of people ranting about children entitled “parents not everything is about you.” I get it to a point, as a parent I think society has become somewhat a overly child-centred. I assume however that the odd stories you see about parents demanding people give up train seats for ten year olds are just that, the odd story of unreasonable behaviour that people in all groups can be guilty of.

The extent of the comments on that thread baffled me. Full of I’m so glad I don’t have children because X, Y. It’s one thing to want to be child free which to me is a perfectly valid life choice, but I’m baffled by the level of bitching about parents & children. If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them about how fulfilled they are while at the same time ranting about how terrible it would be to have kids.

@ConfusedNT I know I might regret this but what is pom bears………..

That poster made a general response to people on the thread, not you specifically and then you chose to respond to them and take it personally

They were as likely to have been responding to all the 'why are you on here' posters as they were you

And to be honest you were pretty rude to them with all the 'you must be hungry, eat some protein' comments

As I have said I have kids, I also have a job, a partner, a mother, friends. And I do not expect those without children for whatever reason to give up seats etc.

Yes, but many do expect that. You've seen such comments on this thread. Those are the comments, and the parents, and the entitlement people are talking about. That is who people are bitching about. Not you. Parents aren't one homogenous group. You don't have to be offended on behalf of other parents who do deserve criticism.

I do actually get it. Every time there is a "nurses are lazy fucks" type of thread, I get annoyed as a (former) nurse at that generalisation. But then I just think "Meh. I'm not going to change this person's mind so I'm not going to waste my time." Then, on the other side, you get someone post about their horrible experience with one particularly shit nurse, and people come making excuses for the nurse. I'm sure teachers get it too.

That's just the nature of people. It's really not worth getting worked up over. Those people aren't important. They aren't your friends. Don't give them space in your head.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_classics/1056940-to-think-this-couple-are-bonkers?page=1

I'm no idea why out of all the bits of that thread the pom bears stuck as the MN reference for it but for some reason they did

That poster responded specifically to me. I wrote the post above it & I also started this thread. I took it as a response to me which is reasonable in the circumstances.

And yes I was a bit rude because frankly I’m getting irritated by the people shouldn’t be having this conversation brigade.

Your post is very reasonable. But you know the odd day when you just feel like I’m sick of hearing this same old mantra, I’m having one of those days.
Not aimed at you, but this is just a conversation like any other conversation, and I don’t see why it’s such a big deal to have it.

Ah now I didn't take that as a response to your post specifically but I do understand that if yours was the post above it why you would take it as a response

But honestly given you started a thread which essentially seemed designed to expect childfree people to respond to explain their reasoning it still then feels off for you to turn around and tell them they shouldn't be here

I think your intentions were probably normal, you just wanted to understand something, you did it was all fine and then someone irritated you and you replied and that's just a standard day on mumsnet

But it could also feel a little bit like you created a thread that was likely to draw out childfree people so that then you get to tell them they shouldn't be here

I'm assuming you have good intentions but I don't know you, and certainly there are a few posters on mumsnet who seem to delight in having a go at childfree/less women

It is just a conversation, but it is one you knew would draw in a range of opinions from opposing sides and cause an argument. Because it always does. You can't throw a grenade then complain about the aftermath. Or rather, you can, but people will call you out on it.

The rest I just pity because they’ll never know what it feels like to be a parent.

This is reflective of the thousands of comments I've had over the years for being child-free by choice. You know what the worst thing I've been called is? Selfish. Yes. Selfish.

As if children are born through their own choice.

Is it any wonder we eventually snap and bite back?

I asked people not to contribute if all they want to say is essentially you shouldn’t be having this conversation/ point out that I could have not engaged with the thread at all, as the same logic applies to them. I never specifically said childfree people shouldn’t be here.

And no I’d didn’t create a thread to “draw out childfree people.”
And I wouldn’t start a conversation if I thought it was going to upset a childless person, because I’m not a monster.

I was having a bad day and I saw thread that irritated me and I started a conversation on it. That’s it, it’s that simple. I wasn’t trying to hurt anybody or exclude anybody.
It is as another poster above said the same as a nurse or a teacher getting sick of the stereotypes. That’s all.

Actually I didn’t think about it that much, I’m not a regular Mumsnet user for starters. So please don’t make false assumptions about my motives.

There are two ‘worst’ ones for me. One woman asked - in faux wide eyed curiosity - if I didn’t feel that I was kind of pointless now that I had no womb and no children. Being called pointless really sticks with you, because until that day I would never have believed that any parent could think like that. And now, I don’t know, I feel like quite a lot do but they dress it up better with the usual love and tiredness arguments.

The other was at work - someone said that if she were in charge she’d insist that childcare was provided free and that it’d be funded by people without kids paying double the amount of tax that they currently are, on the basis that they’re not contributing anything and it’s selfish for them to live in a society and not provide it with kids. That one was less painful because it was so fundamentally fucking stupid but plenty of parents really do think they’re saving the world by procreating, and it’s utterly bizarre.

As the OP I will say that this thread has opened my eyes somewhat. For the record I don’t think you require to be pitied or are selfish.

And I get that which is why I said your intentions were probably to the totally normal ones most people have when they start a thread on mumsnet

But this is an emotive subject and quite frankly you would be naive to think it wouldn't draw views that would be hurtful childfree and childless people

If you had asked me to write a list of all the things that were likely to come up about women without children on this thread they have all appeared.

Just as single mums probably could write a list of all the things that are likely to come up about them (must be on benefits, your child needs a father figure or they will end up in jail, my Dh works long hours so i am a single mum too etc etc)

Ah yes, my grandma’s also called my life pointless and says I’m not fulfilling my purpose as a woman. My mum said she’ll accept it but be sad for me and thinks it’s the wrong choice. My other grandma said it’s a “necessity”. My stepdad says people without kids are never truly happy. My manager said his wife changed her mind so I may well change my mind. And that’s before I’ve even started on what the idiots on the internet have said! Can you really not understand why childfree people would like a space where they can hit back and say how they truly feel without judgement?

The comments on women’s bodies - they’re not nice (and were a very small minority of all the comments on that thread) but can you honestly say you’ve never looked at anyone’s body and thought “I don’t want to look like that” or “I don’t feel comfortable seeing that”? People that have extreme body mods etc. If you haven’t then great, but if no-one felt that way then programs like Embarrassing Bodies or Supersize vs Superskinny would have no audience, so let’s not pretend we’re all holier-than-thou and never have an opinion on other’s looks.

my grandma’s also called my life pointless and says I’m not fulfilling my purpose as a woman.

Point out to her that we are a bunch of evolved monkeys clinging to a rock which is hurtling through space, and the rock itself is dying. There is no ‘purpose’ I say as a mum of 1 and soon to be 2. We should do what we want when we want because we will all be dust in the blink of an eye.

Well now you know. Other contentious issues include:

Stepmothers/children
Childfree weddings
Trans people
Disability spaces (toilets, car parks, on buses etc)
Autism
ADHD
Teachers
Nurses
Social workers
Health visitors
Grandparents not providing childcare
Leaving children home alone
Christmas
Dogs
Fat
Thin
Affairs

If you want to start a fight, any of those is guaranteed to work.

Don’t forget toilet brushes

Oh and SAHMs v.s. Working mums, absolutely textbook comments and bunfight guaranteed

Whether or not to take your child to nursery with a cold is another good one.

Not forgetting shoes on/off in the house and any aspect of personal hygiene from showering to bum wiping.

Some of the threads are classics in their own internet right e.g. penis beaker.

So people are drawn in by them by being told by others or other parts of the media.

They then explore the site and see that a particular board on the forum has something they are interested in so sign up. This is regardless of whether they have children or not.

Shoes off and shoes on.

(Shoes off if you have children who will walk in dog shit.)

In terms of the comments on womens bodies, which I don't condone, it's hardly a thing only a (handful of) childfree people do

Have you ever gone on the tattooing topic on MN?

Full of lovely people minding their own business but far more often than you would like posters feel the need to pop in and tell them that what they are doing to their body makes them look ugly, cheap, common, nasty, like a prostitute, they will hate it when they are older, tattoos look worse on men than women, it's a sign if a mental disorder, you must hate yourself etc etc

So judgements on womens bodies and the choices women make that affect their bodies are absolutely not restricted to childfree people

Hi, sorry no I meant choldfree by choice people, I have a long history of infertility and loss before I had my children and used bsbycentre throughout so I absolutely understand why mums who have lost their babies are here. My sincere condolences on your loss