To hate some of the negative male narrative re having kids

[ChocChoc889]

I'm 33, friends are starting to have babies/planning to have them soon/talking about it. DP and I had a practical talk about what it would look like, mat leave etc tonight. He's so fucking down about it! Like it's some enormous thing he needs to get his head around. In one breath he says he wants kids and how lovely it is having a family but then he starts getting all negative. All our male friends are the same, joke about how their life is about to end.

And I'm sitting here trying to convince him it'll be fine but you know what, I really want to tell him to FUCK OFF. I'm the one having to carry the baby, taking all the health and career risks, I'm the one having to take maternity leave etc, in the short term it's really shit for me. And I really want someone who's excited and happy and wants to do this with me.

I make 2x times his salary. I have a very supportive mum. I could comfortably go have a baby on my own. And after tonight's conversation, I'm really fucking tempted to walk away. I don't want to be some kind of downer who trapped him for the next 20 years.

Anyone else felt this way? Or are all the men I know a bit shit?

Men are weird. My DH was the same at first when the babies were small, he just wasn't into them. When my first hit around 2.5 years old and was interactive and fun he fell in love. Now he's great with them.

I think some men just don't have that deep connection to the idea of children, or pregnancy, and when they're small. Its very physical and hormonal for us.

Do you love him otherwise, do you think he would make a good dad?

You’re still plenty young to start a family and arguably will be in even 5 or 6 years’ time (provided you don’t want 6 children or whatever) so you could just meet someone new if you wanted to. Are you sure this is your guy? Do you respect him? Really respect him? Is he a good partner in his own right or because of your careful cultivation? Sounds like you could be more impressed with his earning power.

You are right of course, the whole “oh no life is ending” narrative around starting a family is at best boring but also just so insulting- no one has a gun to his head, you fully deserve to be with someone who doesn’t feel like he’s doing you or the world a favour by having children.

Having a baby is a massive thing that you should get your head around. It’s a major lifestyle change that shouldn’t be entered lightly. How many posts do you see on here from parents struggling with the newborn stage?

if you can’t see this then are you sure you are ready to have children?

Our relationship is otherwise excellent. I am ready for kids but maybe he isn't? It's just really pissed me off, made to feel like this is oh so hard for him and like he'd be doing this for me. Either he wants them or not.

@Beachbodyready Yes, it's a major thing, but it's not a negative thing. I WANT a family, no one is making me do it. And I'm not making him do it either. HE is the one that brought it up tonight and he's somehow managed to just make me feel shit about it. I can't be arsed with him now tbh. What a way to take a good thing and just make it a bit shit.

I once read that if it was left to men to decide when to have babies, the human race would have long since died out. They don't seem to get the biological urge like (some) women do.

Vast generalisation but IME men like the airy-fairy concept of being a Dad but don't have much interest in pregnancy or babies. They tend to become more interested when they can play with their children. The decent ones will step up and be helpful and supportive anyway. The rubbish ones will leave you to it.

It is a huge change to your day-to-day lives and maybe the discussion of the reality of taking on the "breadwinner" role for a time has made him worried. I would let it sit for a few days to sink in then have another discussion. Does he really want to keep your current lifestyle forever?

Well if it’s otherwise excellent, that’s great- maybe he isn’t ready. Are you keen to have them now because you want to be a parent now or is it mostly to do with this is the time you “should” be having children? You could make the most of the next couple of years and put off trying until then. Most people I know don’t seem to regret having children later.
you definitely don’t want children with someone who’s not that sure though. I would suggest you stop bringing it up with him, but you should take steps to monitor your own fertility if you haven’t done that already (get egg count, use Mira fertility tracker). That way you will feel like you’re making progress even if he’s still ambivalent about it.
it’s very common for men to be not really bothered until children actually come along, but I know one or two men who weren’t sure about children but said they wanted them, and ultimately decided they didn’t want children after all. Not an issue for them , only it was a bit late in the day for there partners which felt very unfair

Sometimes I think that some men are jealous of women being able to get pregnant and grow a baby and give birth. It’s something women can do that men can’t do and pisses them off.

Surely it’s better that he is honest with you about how he feels? A baby will massively change the way he lives his life and the way he behaves - it’s good that he recognises the commitment involved. It sounds like he’s really considering whether he’s capable, better that than a man who goes along with you and then dumps you with all of the responsibility.

I love kids and am great with them (primary teacher) but my DH and I have decided not to have children because we have thought deeply about it and discussed what it would look like. We currently have a lot of toddlers in our group of friends and they’re delightful, but it’s really not a life for us.

Children cost money and take up space. They add a huge mental load and require lots of patience, time and input to keep them happy and healthy…and even then many things are outwith your control. You cannot deny a baby will impact every aspect of your lives and how you live for the next 18 years minimum. It’s important for him to fully get his head around it before bringing a new life into the world.

I'm sure he does want a baby but when he thinks about all the practicalities and organisation, it's off-putting. I don't blame him. I need a new bathroom but having to make all the choices is over-whelming. Just back off for a while and let him work through it. Just because you both process things differently, doesn't make him a bad person. You just handle things differently. I'm sure you do things that annoy him too.

I disagree with most of the posts.

OP is ready, earns quite well, and has support.

I say don't wait for him. It could really backfire.

Especially since there seems to be a touch of sacrafice in his attitude.

I know pleanty of men who do not want kids. I also know plenty who do.

OP - I would be very clear with him, give him (?) weeks/months to think it through. After which you will respect his opinion but get on with things if he is still not sure/ready/mature enough etc.

Also - be careful he is not one of the "well you wanted it so you get on with it " types.

Agree with you OP - it's the stereotypical male's cultural script which is the issue, as portrayed in hollywood films etc. It's derogatory and insulting, as if only women want children and drag their men into it. When have you ever seen a man portrayed as being sad he hasn't yet had children?
In my experience though, once his friends start having children, he'll be keen not to be the odd one out, and lived experience starts to outweigh cultural stereotypes, but until that point it's bloody frustrating.

Are you guys getting married? Has it been discussed? I would at the very least suss that our first…..

@Evergreenlevelbest1 why would she be impressed with his earning power when she earns double what he does?! Sounds like his earning power is extremely unimpressive to me. If you're going to accuse op of being a gold digger at least read the op properly

It’s a massive lifestyle change, causes huge stresses, money, time, commitment for life. I am damn sure I’d want us to be thinking through the decision to have kids - it isn’t all baby powder and giggles. What’s wrong with your partner being honest about how they feel - you are being incredibly dismissive. I wouldn’t get a dog until dh was 100% committed to getting one and I waited till he was. You sound a bit selfish - you’ll go off and have a child by yourself, people are proud of bring their kids up as single mothers because it’s bloody hard, you need to be a bit more realistic.

Totally understand what you are saying, op. My dh was the same and just had me on a real roller coaster of 'yay let's do this' then 'actually I'm not so sure' for a while. It was hell for me at times because I was so sure about wanting a baby and I just wanted to get on with it. I wish I could say it all turned out fine in the end, because it depends where you say that end was or is - we have two lovely grown up dc now and me and dh are still together and he has always been a devoted dad, but he didn't find it easy at the beginning at all. Fortunately for me and the dc he had a strong sense of duty and kept going through it all, but we had some bad times. Had there been any major problems with the dc, we would have been sunk when they were little as he wouldn't have coped if there had been medical difficulties or sen issues, I feel certain. You say you could do this by yourself op, and that's a strong position to be in from the start and if you earn well that is something to keep doing so you can always have that in the back up plan if you need it. I have always worked for that reason, I knew when things were rocky it was always my little bit of security to know I could manage alone, I wasn't trapped. I wish you all the very best and lots of luck.

If you can walk away - walk away!

My husband is ok, nothing wrong with him really but he is such a downer on everything. He’s a downer on the kids too. Always complaining…

I wish I’d had the opportunity to raise them alone and still be able to have spent time with them.

There will come a time when your children will start to go their own way when they get to about 10/11 and then you can meet a nice guy.

You need to be really clear right now. I thought my DH was great, once the baby came along he was completely useless, it's almost destroyed our relationship. This seems like it's a familiar story. So just realise how hard it is and how much he is going to be part of your team. If you have friends in RL who have children then talk to them about it so you understand what the day to day entails and what your future looks like with him and a baby. I feel if you're not prepared and you don't have the support it can almost break you, no matter how smart or strong you are. All the best

@setfire i don't think @Evergreenlevelbest1 meant it like that. I think it was meant as a 'there is potential for his earnings to be better' rather than a 'she should be happy with his current earning'

It is definitely easier to have children alone than dragging a deadweight along for the ride. I say this as one of many women, now all single mothers, who's partners did not help, cope or coped by cheating when the children came along. Then the added complication of divorce, trying to get them to pay or spend time with their children while they have a controlling input (only when they feel like it) is exhausting. All of us would have had easier lives if we had done it by donor, including the children. I do have a little one with my now husband (he's fifty and after nearly missing the boat, he was ready and delighted to have a baby), finally I'm feeling like I have a partner in child rearing, it is refreshing and delightful. I can't see it in many relationships unfortunately.

Like sexual consent, I think both partners should be excited and enthusiastic about having a baby or you should not include him and go it alone. Good luck!

In my experience all men are entirely useless (mine and friends) when the baby comes along. Mine was and still can be a total misery. I had post natal depression myself but got treatment and recovered quickly. Part of the reason was his lack of suppoty and total joy sponge attitude. Maybe he had it too but refused to acknowledge it.

Maternity leave has a lot to answer for as they get used to you doing most of the childcare/household stuff and don't seem to understand how to adjust when (if) you go back to work. We are 10 years in now and only just getting on track. We have been close to separation a few times. If I had my time again I wouldn't hesitate to go it alone. The kids are are still the best thing ever, just a shame we have to procreate with a male.

I think I'd have to ask him very bluntly, 'do you actually want children, or are you just doing this for me?'

If he is not 100% committed and invested in this, it's not going to go well. You are young enough to find someone else if he's not on board.

Dads should be enthusiastic and totally present from day dot, not waiting until the child hits an age where they can speak and be more interactive (a poster above said her DH was only intereted when they hit 2.5, which is absolutely rubbish). I would accept no less for my children.

Our attitude to children and parenthood are terrible in this country. We vilify single mothers who are usually doing an excellent job in a very difficult situation. Men are told children are a nuisance but if you want to get married then you'll probably have to have one to keep your wife happy, but it's her responsibility if she wants to do it! Actually, we're all told children are a nuisance. The 'children should be seen and not heard' attitude is still quite prevalent.

I have family in a Nordic country and it's so different. Children are welcome pretty much everywhere with restaurants having proper play areas. Rather than being handed a piece of paper and a crayon and growled at to stay seated everyone is happy for the children to fidget and wander. Supermarkets used to have ball pits for children to play in while the parents shopped when I was a child I the 1980s. My aunt and uncle had a years shared parental leave in the 1990s. Children walk themselves to nursery to this day.

They have an aging population, as we do, so need people to have children, as we do, so actually encourage it rather use it to score political points. But then, their politicians and society actually seem to care about EVERYONE in it.

Thats how I felt but we had left it quite late so had to get on with it if we were going to have children at all. DH was much keener than me (he’s a bit older so REALLY REALLY had to get on with it). He was actually bloody brilliant, I had severe PND and god bless him he did most of the nights while working full time.

Tbh it’s a massive change going from 0-1, a number of women have said it’s like a bomb going off in your life. I actually think having extremely low expectations is a good thing, especially for the first year. You’ll probably find that if you go ahead it’ll be the scans where he starts getting a bit excited (was the case for me, seeing DD bounce around like a ping pong).

Being completely honest how he performs as a dad is going to be partly down to personality. I have never heard DH blame outside circumstances for not being able to achieve something, always takes ownership for himself etc. If you have a whinger who avoids responsibility, it’s never their fault or they can’t look after themselves then yeah don’t have a kid with them. If he’s just a bit worried about how your lives are going to change but is otherwise solid and proactive I wouldn’t worry as much. Just make absolutely sure he wants a child.

sorry it sounds like he’s not ready for a kid. As many have said it’s a huge deal and it’s, in some way, really really good that he he’s not just downplaying it and thinking about it properly. That bit sounds pretty mature and sensible to be honest and it’s not right to make him feel bad for thinking this huge decision through properly.
Almost no one regrets having kids but dp and I have both had times when it’s been so hard we have wished we hadn’t chosen that moment. He needs to be ready, so if you don’t think he is, I’d decide if you can wait and support him to be ready or decide you can’t and leave him.