To hate some of the negative male narrative re having kids

[ChocChoc889]

I'm 33, friends are starting to have babies/planning to have them soon/talking about it. DP and I had a practical talk about what it would look like, mat leave etc tonight. He's so fucking down about it! Like it's some enormous thing he needs to get his head around. In one breath he says he wants kids and how lovely it is having a family but then he starts getting all negative. All our male friends are the same, joke about how their life is about to end.

And I'm sitting here trying to convince him it'll be fine but you know what, I really want to tell him to FUCK OFF. I'm the one having to carry the baby, taking all the health and career risks, I'm the one having to take maternity leave etc, in the short term it's really shit for me. And I really want someone who's excited and happy and wants to do this with me.

I make 2x times his salary. I have a very supportive mum. I could comfortably go have a baby on my own. And after tonight's conversation, I'm really fucking tempted to walk away. I don't want to be some kind of downer who trapped him for the next 20 years.

Anyone else felt this way? Or are all the men I know a bit shit?

This isn't very good advice. Whilst some women are still very fertile at 39/40, others have passed their most fertile years and it's not at all unusual to be perimenopausal by your late 30s.

Look at your maternal family history if you want a clue as to whether you're likely to have plenty of time- but waiting until your very late 30s or early 40s us a big gamble if you're very sure that having children is extremely important to you.

Great advice from @MrsMullerBecameABaby - agree 100%

Presuming he’s a good partner, (you’ve said your relationship is good), then I think YABU.

Talking about the realities of having children should be done more. It’s life changing for both parents. I’m not minimising you’re role, I had 2 hard pregnancies and awful births, complications, with PND after one of them. The baby will rely on you more, whether you breast feed or not as you will be the primary caregiver taking maternity leave and your career may take a bit. That’s all huge.

But a good partner, will help you through all that, it will affect them because they love you and life will never be the same as those pre child days ever. No spontaneous trips or days out, constant worry about your children (one of ours is an adult and that worry is still there!), illness, tantrums, shaping them into a good person, friendship issues, bullying, food issues, the teen years. It’s non stop.

And I’m one of those mums who really loves being a mum and my partner has been a great dad to our kids. Having kids is something we have never regretted and we’ve enjoyed the vast majority of parenting. But to read the above you wouldn’t believe it.

It’s best to go into it with your eyes wide open.

Look at his family. If his father was a do nothing dad then that is the default for you.

It's easy not to have children. Men who are wet blankets even talking about it are indicating actual uselessness in advance. Men do not usually start talking about how bad something will be or their own competence! If they do, it's a huge red flag for a dud dad.

My friend had the same moan about her husband’s friends being really down about him having kids and warning him his life would be over. She seemed to be saying his experience has been the total opposite.

Of course, he really enjoys being a dad because, in comparison with her life, his has changed minimally. She gave up work and basically everything else in her life to focus solely on the children, while he goes to work as usual and reads them bedtime stories. Of course he loves it because his wife does 99 per cent of the shitty drudge and he remains deliberately incompetent.

Sounds wearing, OP. You’re both in your thirties, have jobs, a secure relationship - either you want kids or you don’t. You’ve decided you do, so what is his problem? Unless, actually, he doesn’t - in which case he needs to man up and say so.

I find this attitude of some men that they ‘aren’t ready’ and need to drag out their young, free and single days into their forties so tiresome. But the worst ones are those who dither around saying ‘I’m not ready yet’ and waste their partner’s fertile years.

Ultimatum time. Either he is in or out.

(There ARE men who are ready and excited about the prospect of having a family. I married one).

I think many men are just not interested in babies and pregnancy. It's just not real from them until the baby is there and then it's such a huge disruption with very little positive payback from their point of view.

It usually improves with time and their children become really cute little people. Sometimes it never does, hence a lot of deadbeat dads.

In OPs place I would get pregnant by him, and if he doesn't shape up, ship out.

33 isn't 'young' and if you intend to go it alone if necessary, having a baby now is ideal.

All the men I know (older all dc now teens) absolutely adore their children and family lives and appreciate how lucky they are frankly. The baby /toddler stage is tough but it passes - it is just a stage unless you have a massive family which most don’t have the stomach for.

Being honest here it was DH who was more excited about starting a family then I was. He practically begged me to stop taking the Pill the second we were married. From the moment our daughter was born he doted on her and was very hands on. He was happy to do bath times and night feeds if I was feeling too tired. He willingly gave up his weekend hobby because he wanted to spend that time with DD and me (I never asked him to he just did it). I felt incredibly lucky that he was such an involved parent who genuinely enjoyed being with DD. Twenty years on and they're still very close and I've noticed that all of her boyfriends have been lovely boys who have treated her extremely well. I think this is because she simply expects to be treated very well by men because of the example her Dad has set, and she doesn't tolerate anything less.

it's not at all unusual to be perimenopausal by your late 30s.

Given the nhs fertility site states 90% of women 39 and under TTC; will have conceived within 2 yrs max. - I don't think so.

I very much agree with your first paragraph. Since becoming a parent myself and finding out how hard it is, even as part of a couple, I’ve realised the vilification of single mothers is absolutely evil. And I completely agree that there’s a narrative that children are a hobby for women and that if men want to keep hold of women to have sex with, then they have to give them children, but it will be annoying because the children will get in the way and life won’t be as fun.

That said, I think there are lots of women who are prepared - perfectly happy, even - to accept completely disinterested fathers for their children. I have a good friend whose husband couldn’t be less interested in their three children. He works long hours during the week and is away every weekend watching rugby or skiing or whatever. But she doesn’t really seem to mind as long as he keeps bringing home the money for her to remain a SAHM. It seems to me that the risk to her is that he decides that deal doesn’t work for him anymore.

It seems to me his just unusually realistic 🤷🏽‍♀️
Many men say they are happy to have kids, and once they here they hate it all.

I’ve seen the usual and stupid comments that people without kids are immature and haven’t mived on in life garbage that parents like to tell themselves in order to feel superior, but I’ll say there is nothing wrong with worrying thw life you have.

Now, I don’t know what your actual lifestyle right now is, is it pretty shallow/vapid?
As in many nights out, drinking/drugs into early hours? And next day curing hangovers?
I don’t really understand living like that in any point, but if you want to be a good parent - those days are going to be long gone.
Can you ask him what he is worried about loosing?

Can’t say that I blame anyone for second guessing, many parents seem so tired, unhappy, and many seem to loose they personality (and kindness - I’m sure we’ve all seen/heard the bitter parents attacking childfree people).

Thanks everyone. I was just having a selfish tantrum, I was taken aback about how negative he was in our very first proper practical conversation about kids (which he started, not me). So far he's floated the idea in a positive way, he's from a big family, likes the idea does not want to wait too long etc. But last night's conversation was a blow by blow of how shit his life will be and I just wanted to go "hold on, I have to do all the hard work for the next 18 months!" MY body and career are the ones taking a hit, not yours!!

My mum and my grandma went into menopause at 40. I'll be 34 this year so no, I don't have plenty of time.

I have already considered all the negatives and practical stuff, so maybe I was just surprised he hadn't! At all!

It doesn't help that we know 2 couples who have just had babies and have had an unusually hard time and they're on the brink of divorce.

Honestly, I don’t think either of you are being unreasonable! It’s fine for him to talk through his anxieties about this next step with his partner. And it’s totally understandable for you to find that a difficult conversation and feel your own anxiety about what this means for your future plans. Neither of you are wrong. It will be a big (mostly positive) life change with some very difficult adjustments. That doesn’t mean it won’t be wonderful.

I’d just consider this the first conversation of several that you should be having before taking this big step together. Maybe in the next one you could list out your own anxieties for you and then, another time, you could both talk through practical steps to mitigate some of these potential issues. You might both feel more connected and ready to get excited once you’ve worked this stuff through.

Well, it is an enormous thing for anyone to get their head around - man or woman. In fact, it's completely terrifying, and it astonishes me that so many people seem to do it almost on a whim. Listen to him - he is right to at least question whether this is the right thing to do.

And I would add that just wanting something isn't enough. As a female, I had times when I thought I wanted a child, but I knew that was governed by emotions/hormones/societal pressure. As soon as I thought about it in a cool, logical way I knew it would be the wrong decision. Thank goodness, I let my head overrule my heart!

It didn't help that we saw our friends, who are trying for a baby, for dinner (which is what started off our conversation at home later) and she was super excited and her DH spent the night making jokes about how his life is over. It's what influenced DP last night in his thinking I think.

I do think I am just much further down the road in planning this. And he had a wobble, which is human. I think I expected him to know a lot more about it given he's 36, almost 37. But he's looking into now so that's OK.

This wasn't some huge fight or anything, everything is ok, I think the negativity coming from various men we know really fucked me off. Liked why have kids if you think it will be the worst thing to happen to you?

A lot of men only have children because their wives/girlfriends want them. They're the ones you read about on MN. "AIBU to think DH should do more" and it's always men who do very little with their children. They just carry on as they did before.

If you are married, have sorted out how finances would work, discussed how dc would be cared for when they are here then talk to him about his reluctance.
If the above points haven't been sorted then you as a couple have a bit more planning and organizing to do before you are ready to start trying.
Talking through those points will tell you if he actually wants dc. Not everyone does and some blokes are are awful dads.

hold on, I have to do all the hard work for the next 18 months!" MY body and career are the ones taking a hit, not yours

Kindly, the affect on your body and career are is only a percentage of the hard work of having a baby. Sure, the burden of pregnancy is entirely yours to bear. But when the baby is here, it needs to be a team effort. It’s a bit strange you are already saying you are going to do all of the hard work and assume that your DPs career won’t take a hit. That will only lead to resentment and a huge mismatch in expectations. DH and I have both taken smaller steps back in our career so neither suffers too much, for example (I, like you, am the higher earner) I think your DP actually understands how difficult babies are more than you give him credit for.

I sympathise OP, I had similar convos with DP and it's very tiring. I think men and boys are completely insulated from the idea of babies whereas people nag us about it from childhood on. They never really think about it in an in depth way until that conversation with a partner, I think.

And as a woman you're like - you do realise if you want to have children we actually have to go ahead and conceive them?

I agree with this. Even when I was on maternity leave (where obviously I was doing more), we split the nights, and obviously shared the evenings and weekends. DH did plenty of the work then, because he's not a dick.

What do you mean by ’negativity’?
Are you sure they aren’t just being realistic and honest?

I mean no one, no one, has ever said life hot better after kids.