To wonder why nobody is talking about the excess death rates

[Sotiredofallthisnonsense]

That's all really. It's not just the UK - so NHS and strikes etc won't account for similar or significantly worse death rates in other areas of the developed West.

There is very very little media attention on this. Am I being unreasonable to wonder why?

What do you think it’s from?

Let's see your stats then?

Yes, where are you getting this from ?

Which excess death rates are you referring to? There are several excess death rates regularly calculated for every country:

• excess deaths caused by respiratory infections attributed to flu
• excess deaths by hypothermia caused by not affording to heat your home
• excess deaths due to cancer diagnosis and treatment wait lists
• excess deaths due to addiction- ie smoking, drug use, alcohol
• excess deaths due to medical negligence/malpractice
• excess deaths due to refusing vaccination for covid-19

OK what are the numbers where?

DH keeps banging on about this, but when I ask specific c questions like what age group or what causes of death, he can't tell me.

He did send me a video of Dr John Campbell, which implied, but did not say, that it was NHS policy to put people with COVID on end of life care when they were not end of life, but I would be grateful for facts and clarity on this issue.

We've just had a global pandemic that most countries handled really badly.

We have an ageing population. We have poor rates of health overall

Health care is undergoing a staffing crisis

It's hardly much of a mystery

@TheOtherHotstepper

Of course that's not true.

How does he think that would even work?

There are lots of threads started about excess death rates. Especially in the last few years.
The ONS produces them month on month as does the NHS itself. Have you not seen those? Or are you not in the UK?
Lots of papers and ongoing research also into why there's, on average, a 15% increase this winter on previous years. Current thinking is that after two winters of very little exposure to bogstandard respiratory illnesses thanks to masks/distancing etc our immune systems fall at the first sneeze. Sadly for those whose health is already compromised, that kind of illness can be fatal.

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates

While this doesn't break down cause of death and it compares to covid it does give a good guide to excess deaths worldwide

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending13january2023

Here's some state-sponsored coverage:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64209221.amp

John Campbell is no longer a reliable source for anything since his youtubing success went to his head.

Dr John Campbell is not a reliable source of information.
He is not a medical doctor, but he uses the 'Dr' title as he has a doctorate in another subject.
As for people with Covid being put on end of life pathway that is not what happened to a member of my family, who was also ill with two other serious conditions. My relative was cared for very well, and recovered from Covid.

I’m with you op, the global excess deaths (ONS data from UK and world stats for global) are very worrying indeed.

Mumsnet isn’t the platform for this discussion though, if anyone dares to utter anything negative about certain medical interventions used over the past couple of years on here, they are immediately shot down and labelled a looney conspiracy nut.

All you will get on here is loads of other justifications, many of them also correct, but apparently we are continuing to ignore the bloody massive elephant in the room. I don’t generally bother talking about it on here because it’s honestly not worth the hassle.

Says who? I've never seen him say anything not supported by officially published research which he makes sure he references and provides links for. What you mean is you don't like what he's saying.

This makes sense

Covid may very well be to blame for the ongoing death rate being higher than normal. Most of us have had Covid by now, so that's a lot of people who have been exposed to a virus that can (as can many viruses) cause serious problems with heart and lungs.

John Campbell may not be a reliable source, but there are excess deaths. That isn’t really up for debate it’s been known about for over a year. The reasons why are more complex and up for discussion.

@Aishah231

But you can make your case from published data by being selective over which sources you use. I'm not directly criticising him but you are being naive if you think just because it's published it must be correct.

Having worked with statistics I know many of the ways you can prove your case completely legitimately

The clarity is that the idea that there is a policy to put people with covid on end of life care is utter rubbish. Pretty much everyone knows someone who works in the NHS, just ask them.

The Economist has a series of articles but they are paywalled. This one has a clear graph though about A&E delays - scary really

www.economist.com/britain/2023/01/11/how-many-excess-deaths-in-england-are-associated-with-a-and-e-delays

OP there are many disturbing things going on in this country, but we're not supposed to discuss any of them because of the dangers of false news and disinformation....

I saw this thread pop up and predictably there are immediate posts with an insinuation that asking the question means you're asking an inappropriate and pointless question.....

Interestingly I am watching a YouTube video of an interview with Silkie Carlo of Big Brother Watch - it is about the upsurge of surveillance of all social media and signs of dissent expressed on line which proliferated during the pandemic. This is fact not conspiracy theory and involves the interests of government, the military and private corporations.

While none of us individually may be "important" enough for scrutiny or sanction, the monitoring of potential dissent via the questions being asked on mainstream platforms like this is done, and the replies you get may well include some from both genuine posters, and, how shall we say, strategically placed entities.

So don't be surprised if this discussion is shut down with a heavy dose of moral judgment for asking wrong questions.....

I’m assuming the elephant in the room isn’t the highly infectious cardiovascular disease we are allowing to spread freely pretending it’s just like the flu and we’ve had worse colds.

There are excess deaths but the reasons are complex. Studies incorporating multiple countries have found a variety of reasons including delays in treatment due to the pandemic, a rise in non covid seasonal illnesses due to lack of cumulative immunity caused by the lockdowns and being cautious, the vulnerable having been shielded have had their lives essentially extended by not being exposed and are now dying of aforementioned seasonal illnesses and people not being vaccinated when offered both flu and covid vaccines.