To think dp is too harsh on 2yr old?

[Whoissit]

Please help me settle the never ending debate, sleep.

I'm perfectly fine with being told I'm the one being unreasonable but I really don't think I am.

Dp has become increasingly frustrated with dc, who is 2yrs 3months, not being able to fall asleep on his own. I keep telling him he has unrealistic expectations that aren't fair to put on dc given his age. That I remember my parents sitting with me reading a book, singing, or rubbing my head until I fell asleep in primary school. I'm getting annoyed at the constant arguments we are having about it because dp thinks dc should be able to lie down at night and just go to sleep on his own. I don't think it's unnatural for him to need soothing/comforting at night.

Once dc is asleep he may way once or twice, most the time he sleeps the whole night through.

Dp thinks I'm being too soft on him and wants to let him cry it out. I generally don't believe in doing that unless it's crucial, example being we are sleep deprived or he is. I think it's drastic measures and causes unnecessary stress to dc.

So who is being unreasonable here? It's our first child. Maybe 2 year olds all do just go to sleep on their own without a problem and I'm pandering....

I sat there with my son when he was younger every night reading with him or cuddling him to sleep and at 9 he no longer wants me to do that so I treasure every evening with my daughter now because one day she won’t want me there either!

My hubby and I have different styles of parenting. I’m happy to sit there with my children at night while they go to sleep but he would rather view the evenings as his time to relax after work. Both things are fine in my eyes because the children arent missing out. Hubby can sometimes feel neglected when I fall asleep with the children but that’s more his issue and I’m not going to stop giving them the love and fuss so he can have his end away!

I have a 2 year old and a husband with similar views. I have to say though she does go to sleep quickly (he normally does bed time). There is no negotiation. We have a routine which involves EVERYONE having to brush their teeth together, playing spooky in the dark (daddy attacks her like a zombie, personally find it terrifying but she loves it) one story, kiss, hug, night night. Maybe 15 mins in total from going upstairs to leaving her. We did do some sleep training when she was younger. We did not leave her screaming for hours but wouldn’t go in the second we heard her, would give it 5 or so minutes. She always sleeps through, which tbf I think is just good luck.
If I’m doing bedtime (she knows I’m softer and easier to push) I may occasionally read a second book or let her select one of her Tonies to take to bed. Maybe you could consider a tonie box if you don’t have one?
So you read a story and then they choose one to listen to once you have left?
Just an idea 😊

I still lay with my 6yr old til he needs to fall asleep, if he wants/needs the comfort then why would i deny him of that, I want him to always feel loved and secure and I'm sure he will grow out of it one day, and I bet I'll miss it when he does so I'm thankful for now (even if sometimes it can be frustrating)

I've never understood why adults are allowed the comfort of sleeping next to their loved one but a small child who is reliant on their parents for everything aren't allowed the same, its madness. I'm also so against CIO, I honestly think its awful, fair enough if you need a few minutes to collect yourself but to leave them to cry for hours, to me is child abuse and I wouldn't allow it to happen to my child. So you are not been unreasonable.

I'm with you here @Rosebel - I had a friend with an elaborate bedtime routine for her son - tons of stories & songs then she lay on the bed with him til he fell asleep etc - can't really expect grandparents or the odd babysitter to do this every night! What about sleepovers (they often begin around age 8) & what about holidays? Really don't understand anyone who wants to spend an hour sitting with their kid when they've already spent all day with them!

I feel like I’m in the minority. Evenings with my OH are really important for us and our relationship. When the kids are in bed it’s our time to watch films chat uninterrupted cuddle whatever. My kids have always done bath teeth story and sleep. Takes half an hour and then the night is ours. I have never sat with them till they sleep. My five year old now does bath teeth reads his school book and most of the time will give me a kiss and take himself off to bed. 🤷🏼‍♀️. No way would I be sitting for an hour and a half rubbing and patting even at 2 years old.

Its definitely possible for a 2 year old to be able to go to sleep by themselves, but it's unreasonable to expect them to be able to do so without ever having been "taught" how to do so.

It seems as though you and your partner are on the complete opposite sides with your views. But there's definitely lots of middle ground in between, which I'm sure you could find a way that would suit both of you.

It does depend though, on whether you want them to be able to fall asleep by themselves, or if you like being there for them when they fall asleep, and are happy to continue it?

I would definitely say the cry it out method is too harsh for my liking though, there are plenty of other methods which are much kinder to your little one and yourself, but still are very effective.

I put YABU, but after reading your further posts, I think your DP is definitely unreasonable. However, I don’t think at that age you should necessarily stay with them until they sleep - 1.5 hours is crazy and you’re making a rod for your own back. Children do need to learn to go to sleep alone, but they also need a bedtime routine with a story and time settling them. Not just in bed, close the door and bye. I think your and your DP need to agree on what is reasonable and make a routine that you follow each night. After you leave, perhaps leave download some stories and leave them playing or I used to use a children’s sleep CD for DD, which was like a meditation thing for kids. What you don’t want is to get into a habit with a child who won’t sleep, keeps getting up and where you end up with hours of your night taken up for years trying to get them to bed. There needs to be a balance and as parents you need to put the work in when they’re little to promote healthy sleep habits when they get a bit older.

If every time it’s an hour to an hour and a half, I’m with your husband - he needs to learn.

if it’s taking him that long - is he even tired enough? does he have a nap?? I’d be looking to cut the nap.

My ds needed settling till he was school age, I still sometimes tuck him in now (8) and always check on him.

I used have to lay with him and fake sleep till
he did. It’s a common and acceptable thing to do with a toddler, your dp is being unreasonable!

To be fair I see both points:
dc do need soothing / reading to etc and their far too young to understand.
1-1.5 hours is excessive imo - if it was 20-30mins I’d say yeah that’s grand to continue.

With DC at similar age, I did CC but only for short periods. Eg: spend the 30mins reading & cuddling, put down and explain that’s enough. Leave room for 5-10mins, if still crying, go in, place hand on them to reassure (no picking up, no speaking) leave and repeat until sleeping.
I did this for no more than a week till DC effectively learned this is what it would take.
it didn’t stop the waking through the night - we repeated the CC method (no speaking, no picking up) until they knew we’d always be there too soothe, but it’s sleep time.
Grow clock as DC got older really helped early morning rises too.

I had to do this as due to childcare I needed to work 1-2 hrs per evening and couldn’t do this with DC wanting that time for ‘bed time’ from me (DH just would not do) as I’d be up till after midnight working and exhausted next day

I think you have the patience of a saint to be patting/soothing your DC for an hour and a half most nights. I don’t think your DP is right by shutting the door and letting him scream but some middle ground should be able to be found. I think it’s an important skill to fall asleep without your parents input so I think the goal should be creating a calm and solid bedtime routine and work on leaving your DC for short amounts of time on his own to try and settle by himself. My DS is younger at 18 months but once he’s in bed, it’s a kiss goodnight and teddy tucked in next to him and we leave straight away. We occasionally have a minute of crying when we initially leave but after that we can usually hear him chatting away to his teddy before falling asleep. However, he’s always been quite chilled so it’s certainly not our parenting skills but I think you do deserve to have your evenings back a little!

I used to really value my time sitting and reading a bedtime story to my children when they were little. But I do think taking 60-90 minutes over the process is a bit mad. Are you trying to get your child to bed too early for him?

I’m with your DH. Cuddles, stories most definitely but I wouldn’t be sitting next to me child for 1-1.5hr waiting for them to fall asleep. My DC have lots of stories and talking time but then they are left to fall asleep if they haven’t fallen asleep already.

i do extra work in the evenings, go for a run or do a quick clean. It works for us but if your happy sitting for that time with your kids then it’s not an issue. If your DH wants to spend more time together on a evening you may need to compromise

My dc are 11-15 and looking back with hindsight I’m so glad I cuddled my dc to sleep when little and even occasionally now when sad they ask for mummy cuddles (including the 15 yo). Sleep is when we’re vulnerable so you are your dc safe person.

At night, my son (who is 2 years 5 months) has a bath, gets his PJ's on has a story and milk then we have a cuddle and i put him to bed fully awake, he goes to sleep on his own no issues at all and this has been the case since he was about 8 months old possibly earlier. Some times he goes straight to sleep, sometimes he chats or sings for anything up to 30 mins before drifting off.

Controversially or not we used the Ferber method to teach him to get to sleep on his own, it took 3 nights to get to the stage of no crying at all and i dont regret it, at the time we were at our wits end and seriously sleep deprived something had to give. The ferber method i have read is more effective and quicker the younger they are once 2/3 years old they have more stamina to keep going longer so may take a few more days to achieve results.

This.

I am definitely in the camp of teaching them to go to sleep on their own.
Am quite surprised how many people think it normal to sit or lie with their child until they go to sleep.
To me that sounds pretty unrealistic, or at least a habit I am glad we never go in to.
What do you plan to do when the next child comes along ?
Or even if you want to go out for the evening?
Or you have other things you need to do?

I'm 100% on your side. Have a son almost exactly same age (tiny bit younger) and we're still lying with him at night to get him down. Luckily my husband does it most nights now as I did it for the first 20 months as I was breast-feeding him to sleep.

You're doing better than us, in that most nights he wakes up once and ends up in our bed (but he does go straight back to sleep there, so I think he's just craving the comfort of knowing we're there).

I wouldn’t have the patience to sit for long plus I had other younger siblings to tend to. So my kids got a clear routine, bath book bed sleep. And I would leave the door ajar and they would drift off alone within ten mins. Not everyone works like this though and I know people who sat with their kids but it had to stop when other siblings arrived

The one thing you realise once your kids are older is that all these things when they were toddlers are utterly silly things to worry about because they all grow up to be fully functional numbers of society who can go to bed on their own and eat normal foods. I used to spend hours stroking my son to sleep. He didn’t sleep through until the age of 7 (well I don’t think he sleeps through now tbh but he can sort himself out). He used to get into bed with us every night. At one point when he was a bit younger we had his cot at the bottom of the bed and I’d sleep with my head at the bottom of the bed with my hand on his belly. But now he’s a teenager he puts himself to bed and gets up for school without me having to get him up. Swings and roundabouts. Stop worrying about it- it will pass. Definitely not something abnormal but exhausting whilst you are going through it.

YANBU. DS is exactly the same age as yours and identical in terms of falling asleep. Needs myself or DP to stay with him until he's asleep then usually sleeps through but sometimes wakes once or twice especially if teething or unwell. I mean of course it would be ideal if we could say goodnight and close the door but in the grand scheme of things I think this is an okay situation. We all get enough sleep - most of the time. Plenty of two year olds don't sleep through even some of the time.

My child is 20 months self soothes and doesn’t need help. we put him to bed and leave the room and he goes to sleep on his own but i know that’s very rare. i don’t know what ‘right’ and what isn’t, but i know if i had a two year old that didn’t i would sleep train. so i’m with DH. you need and deserve sleep and rest OP!

DD is 2y 9m. She was a nightmare at bedtime to get to sleep until she stopped sleeping during the day (around 4 months ago maybe).
Now she gets an agreed 3 stories then gets left to go to sleep

This is so lovely and wise! Thank you for saying that from another Mum worrying about the same thing x

I'm sorry but I'm really surprised at this. I don't know anyone who still sits with their nine year old.

If someone offers to look after ours they're doing the bedtime and staying with them or they don't babysit, which is fine. Generally it's people asking to have them not us doing the asking. 2 is very different to 8. It's weird to me people don't want to spend time with their children, the idea it's weird I'd want to is bonkers