To think dp is too harsh on 2yr old?

[Whoissit]

Please help me settle the never ending debate, sleep.

I'm perfectly fine with being told I'm the one being unreasonable but I really don't think I am.

Dp has become increasingly frustrated with dc, who is 2yrs 3months, not being able to fall asleep on his own. I keep telling him he has unrealistic expectations that aren't fair to put on dc given his age. That I remember my parents sitting with me reading a book, singing, or rubbing my head until I fell asleep in primary school. I'm getting annoyed at the constant arguments we are having about it because dp thinks dc should be able to lie down at night and just go to sleep on his own. I don't think it's unnatural for him to need soothing/comforting at night.

Once dc is asleep he may way once or twice, most the time he sleeps the whole night through.

Dp thinks I'm being too soft on him and wants to let him cry it out. I generally don't believe in doing that unless it's crucial, example being we are sleep deprived or he is. I think it's drastic measures and causes unnecessary stress to dc.

So who is being unreasonable here? It's our first child. Maybe 2 year olds all do just go to sleep on their own without a problem and I'm pandering....

Bed time for both my kids when toddlers was bath, bedtime story, sleep.
It took about 30 min every night but DH and I took it in turns.
We all enjoyed it and our children have happy memories of it now.

Why does you do not want this for his dc?
Does he want you to spend more time on him or does he think it’s bad for dc ?

My parents sat with me at bedtime for years, never let me cry myself to sleep, and guess what, I can fall asleep now as an adult and sleep all night. It’s almost like it doesn’t need to be taught 🙄

Exactly. It doesn't.
I can see my son progressing without having to be taught.
It's called child development!
I don't understand anyone who can leave their kids to cry. It's just horrible.
Checking out of parenting so they can go downstairs and sit on their bum watching crap on TV.

Personally I have that mentality that they are only young once and if it was down to me we would invest in a bigger bed so we can co sleep abit longer.... I know that's generally frowned upon though.

Thank you for the suggestions on night lights/music.

I think to expect a newly toddler to go from having his parents comfort him to sleep to absolutely nothing is highly unrealistic. So maybe that can all substitute for it and help him to learn to self soothe.

Really though, I still see nothing wrong with needing us at his age! I've tried to tell dp that bedtime can be a nice bonding time as dc is usually more cuddly, wants more intimate attention rather than just running around, but I guess as people said we clearly have two opposing parent styles/views on this.

I think YABU. At 2, you should have a routine whereby you do bedtime however you do it and child snuggles down and goes to sleep on their own. If you want to spend hours stroking his hair or whatever then your husband should just let you take over bedtime.

If you had another baby would you have to take it in turn to sit with each child and Pat them to sleep for an hour each or would you put the toddler to bed earlier so you can get an hours patting in before the baby needs patting for a hour?

I always find talk of sleep training / CIO etc. when talking about a toddler a bit odd. I know a two year old is still very young but the challenges of bedtime are different to a young baby.

I have a 2.5 year old. We have challenges with bedtime at the moment and I wouldn't leave him to cry alone in his room and shut the door. But most two year olds presumably don't lie down and cry like a baby would anyway (appreciating that all children are different)? If mine is having a difficult evening he shouts, asks for drinks, asks to be tucked in multiple times, climbs on top of me, gets out of bed and takes all his books out, tries to wake up his baby brother etc. etc. If I leave when he doesn't want me to he calls for me, shouts "I'm not tired", comes and throws stuff down the stairs etc. I can explain to him that I'm leaving and where I'm going and why and that I'll be back to check on him. He can tell me why he's finding it hard to go to sleep and we can "problem solve" about it. The strategies available are different to sleep training a young baby and it's completely different anyway because if I go downstairs he knows where I am and knows that I'll come back at some point.

I think comments about leaving a child crying so that you can go and sit watching tv are a bit harsh. I do all the cleaning, admin,, cooking for next day, my exercise, catching up on work in the evening. I have zero child free time in the day. I spend most of the night getting up for the baby. So if my toddler faffs around with bedtime it's very difficult to get everything done and get some sleep. I'd imagine that a lot of parents are the same or want to spend a bit of time as a couple in the evening.

Toddlers often react badly to a change in routine and I think some people get stuck with the routines they had when a child was very young because the change is hard. No problem with that if the routine is working for you of course.

Every child is different. My oldest was sleep trained by 9 months (thank you my amazing childminder👏). Even when she woke up she would happily babble away to herself before going back to sleep.

Second would never settle, could literally take hours and either DH or I would have to lie with her. It was only when baby number 3 came along when she was 4.5 yo that she settled on her own because we told her we had to settle the baby and she needed to be a big girl for us. It worked she is a very selfless child and cared more about her baby sister being looked after than her own need for cuddles. She still struggles to settle even now at almost 9yo she will get up several times a night.

Third was settled in her own cot/bed almost from day one. In some ways it was sad as she didn’t like being cuddled in bed so I missed my baby cuddles. At 5yo she occasionally get in bed with us for cuddles.

Your DP is being a dick, you need to do what’s right for your DS.

Agree a bedtime routine that doesn't require staying for an hour. There is plenty of versions.

There seems to be this increase in parents staying with children which probably unconsciously sends a message mum and dad must be there.

Mine are older but we always did teeth, PJs, book and cuddles. My eldest needed dark room and no noise my youngest night light and very low classical music. I used to tell them I was going to do the dishes not to fall asleep and I would be back in ten minutes and they would be out for the count when I popped back in.

40odd years ago I remember having a cozy bed in my parents room. Daddy reading me stories till I fell asleep each night. Happy memories. My mum thinks I was about 6years old before they moved me in to share a room with my sister. Now my 3years. We give him a bath and then take him in the bedroom to get ready for bed. Either me or DP will lay with him till he falls asleep, we always have. Takes anything from 5mins to 30mins for him to fall asleep. I just can't fathom why some can't give their child this bit of time, even if it takes a bit longer. What could be more important than to leave them frightened and upset to learn nobody will come if they cry. Its heartbreaking. All I do is lay with him and cuddle till he drifts off. Then I go downstairs, put the camera on and we enjoy our evening. His bed is also in our bedroom and he usually will sleep all night. If he does wake, I put him in between us in our bed and he'll go back to sleep. Our boxer dog also sleeps in our bedroom at the foot of our bed. I love our little family, my partner loves how happy and content our LB is and we've never had to go through him being distressed at bedtime. Things that help us is a dark bedroom, we have blackout blinds and blackout thermal curtains up, a little dome nightlight that puts red planets and spaceman on the ceiling. Apparently red night light won't interfere with their circadian rhythm and melatonin production and its said they see it as a calming and soothing. It must work as we've all been sleeping with it on for over 2 years with no problems. We don't even notice it. We also have a super king size bed and his is a double. I bought the same brand matteress and bedding so his bed is like for like in comfort to ours. Everyone sleeps well Xxx

I dont think you are being unreasonable but if you want to sit with dc until he falls asleep then you should do this - you shouldnt be expecting your partner to do it or take a turn. If YOU want to do it then YOU should do it. Its unreasonable to expect your DH to parent in a way that he dosent agree with. If DH is to do bedtime then you need to let him do it his own way.

On the surface YANBU, I don’t think I know any 2+yr olds personally that still need that level of input at bedtime, however, that’s not to say it’s wrong. It would’ve been physically impossible
for us to do that, as by that point with DS1 we had a 5 month old baby who also needed to go to bed, but we sleep trained both children very young so I’ve essentially never had to “assist” at bedtime as they do their winding down in bed at their leisure.

Whilst I don’t think you’re BU, I don’t actually think your husband is either, based on your updates. Even 20/30 mins is quite a long time to sit patting your child. I really value that evening time with my husband and yes while they’re only young once, when exactly do you envisage your child no longer needing this input at bedtime? It could get to 5years+ which is a long time in your relationship, and if your husband is indicating that he would like
more 1-1 time with you in the evenings then he isn’t saying it to be cruel. It’s also just not feasible long term, what do you do if you want to go out in the evenings without the toddler?

Hi OP.

Is this your only child? I'm just wondering what you might do if you had another to consider and whether an hour plus would be possible then?

Do you have a 'bath, drink, story, cuddle, bed' type routine? Worked really well for both of ours, even when it was combined (I was on my own a lot, so doing solo bedtime often).

I'd have been crawling the walls on my own sitting there for over an hour!

Co sleep like most of the world's mums!

There is nothing like snuggling up to your DC with their fingers wrapped around yours.

You can encourage a DC to go to sleep by lying next to them with a dimmed light and closing your eyes and making deep breaths which they end up copying.

You can craftily watch for sleep progress. Close your eyes and fake snoring until they go to sleep .My wide awake DC would watch me for less than a minute or 2 before sleeping.

I would then read or watch something with headphones on until I fell asleep.

Making sure your DC is physical tired beforehand particularly in fresh air, as the contrast in air is important.

No stress and works well. They choose to sleep independently when they are ready.

I've cross posted, but there's a small age gap between mine too, and it just wasn't possible to sit with one of them for that long!

I had <2 years between mine and stayed until they fell asleep doing solo bedtime many times. If it hadn’t worked for me and them I would have done it differently obviously, but it did, so there was no reason change things. I don’t really get the “you can only do this if they are the only child” thing, because that’s not true for mine - it depends on the children involved.

I have and would never leave my child crying or upset or wanting me. I lay in bed with them until they're asleep. However I agree that 90 mins is absolutely ridiculous if it's more often than not. You need to look at why it's taking so long and make changes that don't involve you leaving him.

My DS is 3. He has a bath (with baby brother) pjs on for both. Teeth brushed and stories all together then we 'go to bed'. If we're all home DP & I will divide and conquer but if I'm on my own I'll get baby to sleep first whilst DS listens to an audiobook and then go lie with him until he's asleep.
Usually takes no more than 10-20 mins. He quite often falls asleep listening to audiobook so I'll just tuck him in & kiss goodnight.

I think if they feel secure and that you're there and will meet their needs they'll be settled but if they're taking 90 mins to fall asleep then they're either not tired or you're keeping them up.

I genuinely couldn't live with someone who would treat our child that way. What a selfish prick.

I had 3 in 5 years. I always stayed with them until they fell asleep until age 5 or 6? It’s fairly simple, you just put them to bed at the same time in the same room!

OP I agree with you. Luckily so does my DH. We take it in turns to lie with our 4 and 6 yos at bedtime and we both enjoy it. Very occasionally our 9yo still asks me to lie with her while she falls asleep and it is so precious as those nights are few and far between.

I also remember my parents staying with me til I fell asleep and I remember going into their bed in the night and how lovely it was.

And I remember my cousin, whose kids are much older than mine, telling me to keep the bedtime cuddles going as long as possible because that was when her teens (yep teens!) used to share all the things they were worried about.

I literally don't know any child under 5 who doesn't need a story and company to fall asleep. Also we still manage it with my 5 yr old and have regardless of having an 18 month old. There are 2 of us, what would make it physically impossible to put 2 children to bed?

@Whoissit HRTFT but wanted to say my DC are 11&9 and they still want me to sit with them for 5-10 minutes nearly every night. DH hates this. But it’s the one time of day that I’m guaranteed to hear about their worries and troubles….and I’m sure they’ll soon stop wanting this.

A simple rule is that every time you need to make a decision about parenting, ask yourself whether your decision is being made primarily because of:

a) Laziness
or b) Because it's in the best interest of the child

If it's a, then maybe re-think your decision.
(Obviously if you are actually sleep deprived then might need to make some allowances, but if you just CBA then that's rubbish parenting).

Could be a good strategy to share with your DH. Sounds like he's doing a lot of a's at the moment.

What? We have 2, when my youngest was a newborn and cluster feeding at bedtime my husband put our then 3 yr old to bed, bath, story, cuddles while I fed the baby to sleep. Now she's 18 months and he's 5, I feed her to sleep still and pop her down whil DH gives our eldest a cup of milk and slice of toast before bed then one of us takes him up, cuddles and chats until he Fallas asleep. Our eldest has sleep issues from epilsepy so takes a while to settle. Why would we leave him upset and struggling for the want of a cuddle and a chat about his day?

Are you both always home for every bedtime? I think that's unusual

There is nothing like snuggling up to your DC with their fingers wrapped around yours.

That sounds lovely. Sadly, for us it's more being relentlessly kicked while trying not to fall out of bed because the kid somehow starfishes across the entire bed periodically rotating to keep you on your mettle. Just as you have drifted off, he starts singing about dinosaurs in his sleep. When he wakes up, he likes to sit on your head and prise open your eyelids.

We don't do cosleeping now.