To think dp is too harsh on 2yr old?

[Whoissit]

Please help me settle the never ending debate, sleep.

I'm perfectly fine with being told I'm the one being unreasonable but I really don't think I am.

Dp has become increasingly frustrated with dc, who is 2yrs 3months, not being able to fall asleep on his own. I keep telling him he has unrealistic expectations that aren't fair to put on dc given his age. That I remember my parents sitting with me reading a book, singing, or rubbing my head until I fell asleep in primary school. I'm getting annoyed at the constant arguments we are having about it because dp thinks dc should be able to lie down at night and just go to sleep on his own. I don't think it's unnatural for him to need soothing/comforting at night.

Once dc is asleep he may way once or twice, most the time he sleeps the whole night through.

Dp thinks I'm being too soft on him and wants to let him cry it out. I generally don't believe in doing that unless it's crucial, example being we are sleep deprived or he is. I think it's drastic measures and causes unnecessary stress to dc.

So who is being unreasonable here? It's our first child. Maybe 2 year olds all do just go to sleep on their own without a problem and I'm pandering....

Sounds like you husband 1/ wants the attention/time from you 2/ he didnt get enough attention at bedtime as a child.

I’m with you. It’s hard when your partners not on the same page about something but ultimately there is no right or wrong. It’s what works for you and your family. They’re only little for such a short time I’m lapping up the soothing and cuddles (and co sleeping when our 3 year old and 6 year old wakes in the night!) one day I think il miss it (even though some nights I despair! 😂) this “making a rod for your own back” malarkey is a load of nonsense. Cuddle away xx

My 3y3m DS still needs someone with him to fall asleep. It's (usually) one of my favourite parts of the day TBH! We read and snuggle and talk about whatever random thing he's thinking about, then DH or I rubs his back until he falls asleep. Sometimes it does take a long time and then it's frustrating, especially if you have other things you need/want to be doing!
But like you I have lovely, warm memories of bedtimes with my parents and I want DS to have the same. DH's parents did CIO with him and he finds bedtime with DS a bit more annoying or more of a waste of time than I do, but he knows that there's no point in even suggesting CIO or controlled crying to me. It's on a par with smacking IMO - in that I won't even entertain the idea.
Kids don't need to be taught to fall asleep. Sleep is developmental and they all figure it out when they're ready. Your DS isn't still going to need to be patted to sleep when he's 14!
I do agree with PPs that it might be worth playing around with naps, time outdoors etc if it's regularly taking an hour or more.

I would never suggest cio - it’s vile.

However you need to try a few different methods to see if they help.

We used to do:

Audio books
Light show with music
Singing songs

Our now 10yo was like this and we had to settle him for ages - even until he was 7 he needed someone to be with him until he fell asleep but we bribed him at that point.

5 yo just turns over and sleeps so I think it’s very much individual and if your child needs comfort then they need it.

I think every child is different.
We have a set of twins who are 1.5years who get a story, milk and in their cots then we leave. They will play peek a boo for a while, get bored and go to sleep. (We did sleep train them to this at 10months)

Also a DD3 who will get silly time, a story and a drink then we will leave the room and she will go to sleep herself.
BUT this is the way we have always done it so this is our routine and we've stuck to it.

Agree with PP, no way would I be wanting to spend up to 90mins sitting waiting on a child to fall asleep every night, unless they were unwell.

I never sat with any of mine. Bedtime story and cuddles absolutely but never sat with them until they slept.
Of course it's up to you but my BIL and SIL did this and still have to sit with their 11 year old as he's reliant on them for getting to sleep which is starting to impact on all their lives.
Maybe he's a minority but just to make you aware.

Think there's a bit of middle ground here. I wouldn't bung a 2yo in bed and leave them to it but a bedtime routine shouldn't take over an hour either! Tidy up toys, upstairs, bath/brush teeth, PJs, in bed for a snuggle and 1 story, maybe 1 song, kiss goodnight, leave the room. That shouldn't take more than 45 mins from start to finish and DC should be asleep by 7.30 latest so they get enough sleep and you get an evening!

Guessing DS is your only child?

We had three very close together and have spent 8 years in various scenarios of laying with/ on the floor/ in our bed for the start/ bits of the night.

In our experience, kids need their mum and/ or dad alot more than ever thought possible during the evening/ nighttime.
I wish this was made clearer so it wasn't such a shock.

2 is still a baby really. I agree with you that unless you're very sleep deprived you have to put up with it for a while yet. Depending on child, could be 6 months, could be another 4 years.

What I will say is the older they get, the less painful the process becomes, as their conversation and humour develop, and crying decreases.

1.5hrs is excessive so if that was a regular thing then I’d be considering a different approach.

Oof, DH or I sit with DS while he falls asleep but it takes 10-15 mins tops. While I agree with you that sitting with kids isn’t a bad thing, I couldn’t be dealing with 1 to 1.5h. I’d be looking at cutting down or stopping the nap, of making bedtime later, if you haven’t already.

My 2 year old always fell asleep on his own and was perfectly fine with this until recently when he went into his own room. He now likes me to stay but finds my presence very distracting and only sleeps once I leave.

I’m happy to spend 30 mins or so with him reading and chatting as part of his bedtime routine but wouldn’t be patting for an hour while he tries to sleep. I’m a single parent with two children so it would be physically impossible to do that for both anyway and not a habit I’d want to get into.

Not necessarily 'too harsh' or 'too soft' just different parenting styles and preferences maybe.

I had my own children falling asleep alone by 12 months maybe and certainly wouldn't have been prepared to sit by a bed for 15+ minutes every night so I guess I am with your DH.

Some children just don't settle well, I had one child I could easily leave and two I couldn't. Gradual retreat did work for us with DC2 though. It took months of sitting on the landing tbh but we got there. I'd never do CIO with a child of that age, he would be absolutely terrified.

I don’t approve of CIO at all, but I did vote YABU. By 2 your child very much understands bedtime, and the system of lying with him and stroking his hair should never have been developed. A gentle bedtime routine with bed, cuddles and a story - maybe even two stories - a rhyme or song when lights are out and a kiss and a loving but definite goodnight is appropriate at that age and beyond.

Of course he is now used to never falling asleep on his own, but he’s still very little, so there’s still time to move on from this habit. Go through the routine and give a gentle but definite goodnight. If he cries give him a few minutes, pop back in, tuck him in again, another kiss, another goodnight. You’ll probably need to keep that up quite a few times the first few days. Never make him feel abandoned (I hate CIO) but nevertheless be definite that bedtime is bedtime. You can even say, Mummy and Daddy need to have their supper, talk, rest, whatever. A two year old is a proper person - you can’t reason with them, but you can introduce them to things that they will think about (Mummy and Daddy talk to each other without me? Mummy and Daddy get tired?). A two year old can begin to understand that other people have feelings and needs, and you should - very gently - begin to teach them that.

I have known children as old as 7 or 8 who still couldn’t go to sleep without a parent lying with them. I know that is extreme, but try to imagine how much more difficult it could be once this routine has become ingrained. How does it end?

Except for the CIO I am with your DH.

I'd resent the 90 minutes and be doing gradual withdrawal no crying involved.

I like sitting with mine and they like me there, it’s a nice peaceful part of the evening for me. I read while they drop off. Mine share a room so perfectly doable with more than one child. Needing someone to sit with them when 11yo is definitely an outlier and probably would have needed that regardless of how parents handled it when younger.

Hi OP, haven't RTFT. Just popping on to say that all parents are different, all households have different rules/expectations, and you and DP need to compromise a way forward that you're both happy with and ignore everyone else because it's your family - so you get to decide!

In case it's useful to compare though, I have a 5yo and a 2yo. From very early we do a strong and regular bedtime routine, which varies only exceptionally, less than 10 times a year I'd say.

Dinner, then playtime, then milky drink, then bath. After bath it's pjs on, storytime, then they go to separate bedrooms. 5 yo gets lights off and musical rainbow nightlight on (www.argos.co.uk/product/4239808). We have cuddles and say goodnight and kisses and then go out.

2yo gets cuddled and breastfed to sleep, with white noise playing.

Once they're out of the bath it's very unusual for it to be more than 30 mins until me and DH are back downstairs watching Netflix :)

I think a strong bedtime routine is your friend, it cues a lot of sleepy hormones etc. Also enough fresh air in the day, not too long/late of a nap, enough to eat at dinner time, etc.

But basically I am soft with mine because really mindful that though the days are long, the years are short - I want these cuddles while I can get them! In 10 years time they'll be moody teens who won't want anything to do with me... :) Also we are not having any more kids so want to enjoy this baby time as long as I can since he's my last one.

Wish you all the best coming to a compromise with DH. I think CIO is much too harsh but there might be a middle way.

I think you're both BU to be honest.

60-90 minutes of rubbing and patting is crazy.
No story and just shutting a distressed child in a dark room is cruel.

Cut down on any daytime napping, have a nice bedtime routine, story, tuck them in and either pop in and out or do some gradual retreat. Nightlight and some songs or audiobooks to listen to.

1.5 hours sounds ridiculous. You don't have to do CIO but I think it's worth considering other approaches if it's taking that long most nights.

Do they? We have always closed the door to keep it dark and quiet for the kids and ours have never liked it open. I remember being annoyed when my parents would leave mine open, I hated the feeling of vulnerability

There’s a really great book which offers up methods of more gradual retreat sleep training…”Teach your child to Sleep by the Millpond Institute.
They also offer a 1 hour consultation on the phone to help with a particular situation…

I have a 2 year 3 month old. We do usual bedtime routine ( bath (not every night), teeth,pjs, story and cuddle on chair). I then give her a kiss, put her in her cot and switch her grow clock to night time. I say night night and walk out. She usually sings herself to sleep then 😂. If we've had a late night out and about I can skip story etc and just do pjs, teeth and cot and she will still go to sleep on her own.

If you've not got a grow clock they're definitely worth trying. She knows "Blue means night time" and "night time is for sleeping". The only time she cries for me in the night is when she wants to go to the toilet (she's potty trained) and because her clock is blue she knows it's straight back to bed after potty so takes literally 2 minutes.

Some little ones do need a little extra help getting to sleep, but I personally think over an hour every night is way too long and would definitely be looking at how to change it.

depends on the child, obviously. Most little ones I have looked after want the door open,

My DS is 2.5, and I stay with him til he's asleep - usually takes up to 30mins, although we've just introduced a yoto player to start the process of gradual retreat and leaving him with a story on - mostly because I'm 6 months pregnant so need him to have some more independence, otherwise I'm not sure I'd bother tbh.

It isn't working for your family though, as 1.5hr is a very long time - does he need a later bedtime or a shorter nap? And the fact your husband wants it to change, means that some change is probably a good idea, as if he's constantly griping about it it's going to be such a pain in the arse

1-1.5 hours is ridiculous. Putting him in bed, turning out the light and leaving him to cry is cruel. 20 minutes if that includes a couple of stories, maybe a couple of lullabies, seems very reasonable. What you want to aim at is spending some time reading and talking/singing with him then being able to leave him sleepy and drifting off but NOT actually asleep.