"Take Back Control of our borders"

[verdantverdure]

AIBU to think the Brexiteer rallying cry of "Take Back Control of our borders" did not lead me to expect net migration at record levels, asylum seekers in small boats at record levels, and suspect diseased meat in Britain due to a lack of border checks seven years after the vote.

You?

YANBU This was not what I understood by the phrase "take back control of our borders"

YABU I know what I voted for, and it was exactly this. Diseased meat YUM!

We already had control of our borders

Considering we were expecting around 3.5 million EU citizens to apply for settled/pre-settled status and the Home Office has received over 6 million applications, someone can't count very well.

They don't they live in self contained rented accommodation, not in HMOs , I know because I work with them and speak to them It's different because there's quotas if they have enough they won't issue anymore. Also the visa restricts them to health care only jobs. The agencies have raised rates £19 an hour on a Sunday just for a HCA not a qualified. I honestly don't care where someone comes from as long as they are good at their job. FOM was racist really towards non white people.
I actually didn't vote in the EU referendum but yes try speaking to some of the working classes about how they felt. Many industries construction/trades for example suffered from FOM.

British people have the worst access to healthcare in Europe

Or Irish people do?

Irish Times
Hospital care backlog [In Ireland] could take 15 years to clear, consultants warn.

www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/29/hospital-care-backlog-could-take-15-years-to-clear-consultants-warn/

22 January 2023
Thousands of people lined the streets across [Ireland] to highlight chronic overcrowding at 18 hospitals.
Rallies were held in Limerick, Cork, Kerry, Galway, Letterkenny and Navan in protest at long delays faced by patients.
Gardai estimated 11,000 took part in the demonstration through the centre of Limerick city alone.

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/thousands-line-streets-limerick-elsewhere-29020824

A recent study has concluded that Johnson's Brexit deal is a significant cause of the small boats crisis

I've just googled the academic who carried out the study;

Thom Brooks is an active member of the UK’s Labour Party. He is the founding Director of the Labour Academic Network, an independent global network of leading academics supporting the Labour Party’s front bench. Brooks is an Executive Committee member of the Society of Labour Lawyers, active in their Constitutional Law, Criminal Law and Immigration Law sub-groups. He is the Chair of the Sedgefield Constituency Labour Party’s Sedgefield Branch.

www.thombrooks.info/labour-party/

So as @ilovesooty asked - where are the British workers who so wanted the jobs that EU workers were taking?
And you say wages have risen too ( and increasing my DM’s care home fees...but that is another thread...) why are we still bringing workers from abroad?

Come on British leavers, the jobs are there for you.....

squishee
the Dublin Regulation has no longer applied to those refugees reaching the UK via other safe countries. To which they would otherwise be returned, as a rule

Returned as a rule?

16 January 2023
Germany unable to send back most migrants under 'Dublin' rules

According to Germany's biggest tabloid newspaper Bild Zeitung, in 2022 Germany tried to send back over 68,000 migrants to other EU countries under rules governed by the Dublin accords. The majority of those attempts failed.

Just 4,158 asylum seekers in Germany were sent back to other EU countries where they had first claimed asylum in 2022.

Asylum applications in Germany
^The numbers overall rose significantly compared to figures from 2021, reported
[Germany’s federal migration office] BAMF. In 2021, 148,233 applied for asylum for the first time in Germany, representing a 46.9% rise.^

According to the Catholic German news agency KNA, in 2021, Germany issued 10,427 take back requests to Greece, but just one person was actually returned. Germany also issued 6,623 requests to Italy in 2021, and just 287 were taken back.

From this website - couldn't shorten the link to the actual page;
www.infomigrants.net/en/

@MTIH no one seems very keen to answer my question do they? I wonder why...

@MTIH and @ilovesooty . ok here is a wild guess maybe the wage offered is still not high enough. these are usually very gruelling jobs that deserve a fair pay.

I thought we were told that Brexit would result in a high wage economy. It isn't working very well if British people still won't do those jobs that they complained about the European workers doing. All those Leave voters must be a bit disappointed.

I think the existing labour pool of people working in those low skilled positions wanted extra bargaining power. If there's unlimited supply of workers from countries with lower wages the bargaining power goes down it's economics. If all the EU countries had equal economies and wages there wouldn't have been such a problem. They made a mistake in 2004 not doing a transitional agreement. I would have like to remained in the EU to be honest it was personally beneficial to remain but I can understand why some people in society might have voted leave. .

The issue with health and social care recruitment is multifaceted one, the workforce is something like 85 percent of women. Women proportionally have more caring responsibilities , much of H&S care is shift work 12.5 hours with weekends and nights. Many women can't do these so they have to leave , many organisations still aren't flexible with rotas. There's all the issue of low pay and status, patients are becoming more complex with multiple comorbidites. We also have an aging population there's more over 65 year olds than under 15s. The workforce pool is shrinking so you will have to recruit from abroad.

The proportion of overseas staff is probably less than you think in total 16 percent have a foreign nationality in Social care and 19 percent in the NHS. I love how diverse my workplace is and they speak good english, they have to as it's a requirement to even get the visa. Quite a few of the EU staff had very poor English but there was no test requirement. Under EU law because of FOM they didn't have to have it.

But I am not talking about you. I am talking about people from countries like India with lower skills. Your definition of family friendly counyry may differ from a person from India looking to improve their financial situation.

A good size home, easy commute to work, low crime, good education for your kids are more of a priority than whatever respect you are talking about. An average low income Indian immigrant lives in Southhall in a cramped flatshare with one bathroom, compared that to practical living condition in Canada. No matter how intolerant Canadian govt is of your values, human life is more valuable, compare covid handling in the UK versus Canada. Unlike Bojo, Trudeau didnt boast of shaking hands with covid patients.

You seemed to be in denial, talking about your preference when we are talking about low skilled migrants from another country, using emoji to discuss an important issue. FYI, I am keeping up with news, also half my family lives in Canada.

You are one of those privileged elities or a tory MP, who wants Brexit at any cost and don't care about others suffering in the country.

This...

Anyone who still believes in brexit being a good idea...

???

So.

What do you expect to occur when this good brexit settles in??

Back to the control of our borders, or rather lack of, here’s another article that highlights the alarming situation we now have re goods entering the country. Interesting that no one commented on the video i posted a few pages back, I can only assume it means that people are completely fine with absolutely everything and anything entering the country- whether it’s fit for human consumption or not.

NFU not happy

Perhaps the governments chief gaslighting officer can return to the thread to give examples of other countries that have zero customs control are just fiiiiiinnne.

NFU not happy

What was so great about the arrangement before?

31 January 2019
Eleven EU countries have imported beef from a Polish abattoir accused of handling sick cows...

Besides Poland the affected countries are : Estonia, Finland, France, Hungary, Lithuania, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, Germany and Slovakia.

In the EU ... the exporting country is responsible for inspections before the meat reaches foreign buyers. It is not checked at the border, because the EU single market ensures a free flow of goods.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47071234

Lockheart
We already had control of our borders. The idea we didn't was a fabrication.

Jobseekers - residence rights

As an EU national, you have the right to go and look for work in another EU country...

Still looking for a job after 6 months...

If you have not found a job during the first 6 months of your stay, the national authorities can assess your right to stay longer...

Can you be deported or asked to leave?

Your host country can ask you to leave if you can't prove that you have a realistic chance of finding work there.

In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy, public security, or public health - but only if it can prove you pose a serious threat.

europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/jobseekers/index_en.htm#just-moved

We already had control of our borders. The idea we didn't was a fabrication.

2017
Home Office policy on EU rough sleepers found unlawful.

In 2016 the Home Office began accusing people – mainly Eastern Europeans – found sleeping on the streets of “misusing” their EU free movement rights, and subjecting them to administrative removal from the UK. Those removed were barred from returning for 12 months.

The background to this policy, the department’s representative explained, was a 55% increase in rough sleeping between 2010 and 2015.

Mrs Justice Lang
Whilst freedom of movement is indeed an essential element of the internal market (see Article 26(2) TFEU), it also has a wider purpose under the Treaties… The right of an individual EU citizens to reside in another Member State is not solely for the economic and social benefit of the Member State; it is an individual right of citizenship which may be exercised even where there is no discernible economic or social benefit to the Member State from the presence of the particular individual.

freemovement.org.uk/ngo-victory-home-office-policy-rough-sleepers-found-unlawful/

The line was only Take Back Control not the longer one, but borders were likely inferred as part of it.

FOM doesn’t sound like having control already as in pp

What do people mean by this specifically? FOM surely means you are free to arrive or leave within the areas included.

If I were to consider a country with control of its borders I’d say Australia is a good example.

This is a big fat lie about working class people voting for Brexit. I knew they'd be blamed for it though.
Loads of rich home counties pensioners voted Leave. How come they never get mentioned? Could it be because they built a great life for themselves while living in the EU?

Take Back Control Of Our Borders was explicitly stated @MarshaBradyo

In the EU the UK could return people to the country they'd just left so it wasn't worth the risk of the perilous dinghy journey across the channel only to be sent straight back.

That's why the people coming over in small boat crossings was such a small number.

Since Brexit the UK can't do that.

There is zero chance of being sent back.

So now more people are willing to take the risk of a channel crossing in order to be able to apply for asylum here.

Tens of thousands more.

And don't forget, we're not checking the incoming from Rotterdam lorries and vans either

To be fair @Kendodd the Leave campaigns did purposely target far right groups, football forums, conspiracy theorists, people in deprived areas, people of low educational attainment, people who left school at 16 or earlier, people in socioeconomic groups C,D.and E.

That's why they kept the slogans so simple.

verdantverdure
In the EU the UK could return people to the country they'd just left so it wasn't worth the risk of the perilous dinghy journey across the channel only to be sent straight back

Like Germany does?

From the Info [for] Migrants website I quoted from above;

16 January 2023
^According to Germany's biggest tabloid newspaper Bild Zeitung, in 2022 Germany tried to send back over 68,000 migrants to other EU countries under rules governed by the Dublin accords. The majority of those attempts failed.
Just 4,158 asylum seekers in Germany were sent back to other EU countries where they had first claimed asylum in 2022.^

According to the Catholic German news agency KNA, in 2021, Germany issued 10,427 take back requests to Greece, but just one person was actually returned. Germany also issued 6,623 requests to Italy in 2021, and just 287 were taken back.

verdantverdure
To be fair the Leave campaigns did purposely target far right groups, football forums, conspiracy theorists, people in deprived areas, people of low educational attainment, people who left school at 16 or earlier, people in socioeconomic groups C,D.and E.
That's why they kept the slogans so simple.

Is that why Keir Starmer has embraced the "take back control" slogan - he thinks potential voters are simpletons?

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1718378/keir-starmer-sophy-ridge-sky-news-brexit-second-referendum

Farmers openly laughed at Farming Minister Mark Spencer today when he said that "One of the benefits of Brexit. is we can now implement border controls.”

thecritic.co.uk/ive-got-a-brand-new-combine-harvester/