"Take Back Control of our borders"

[verdantverdure]

AIBU to think the Brexiteer rallying cry of "Take Back Control of our borders" did not lead me to expect net migration at record levels, asylum seekers in small boats at record levels, and suspect diseased meat in Britain due to a lack of border checks seven years after the vote.

You?

YANBU This was not what I understood by the phrase "take back control of our borders"

YABU I know what I voted for, and it was exactly this. Diseased meat YUM!

The problem is a Labour manifesto won’t include it.

That’s out. I don’t think like the op that’s smart (I’m actually amazed someone who is this cross about Brexit sees Labour in a better light because they are chasing the Brexit voter over their preference, but anyway).. It’s just political cowardice to really make sure they don’t lose again. Miliband lead to loss was a kicker they don’t want to repeat.

It’s a big shame imo, if all these charts and polls are correct.

In another 6 to 7 years it may have worked out and we’ll never rejoin even SM, or not, but that’s a long time if not.

It would solve the Irish boot fee issue instantly so I think we're about to find out.

In between Rishi Sunak saying that Brexit is going well and he's proud to be a Brexiteer.

Irish border! Sorry. Multi-tasking and typing with one thumb and no eyes.

They won't need it.

We'll already be 3/4 back in by the time Labour take over.

Stopping the downward death spiral of the U.K. economy is the only chance the Tories have got not to be wiped out at the next election.

So we're going back in, one step at a time. If Sunak can put the ERG back in their box and do it quickly they might even get to be the opposition next time.

We'll already be 3/4 back in by the time Labour take over.

Maybe you’re right idk. Do you mean SM and CU?

The problem that’s faced is FOM and I just can’t see Tories going back on that pre GE. Everything points to meeting lower movement not more. Five points etc including boats

So the Labour statement re no CU or SM goes into manifesto if they win

Oh sorry.

I meant it won't need to be in the Labour Manifesto.

Net migration is higher than it was before Brexit and still climbing to ever higher record levels.

Freedom of movement is expected to reduce it.

I don’t think that matters. Brexit voters won’t want FOM back.

It was one of the top reasons for voting according to analysis and I can’t see any party strong enough to sell it in.

Tories less likely but Labour already made unequivocal statement a few years prior to GE not to.

Brexit voters are a dying breed though aren't they?

Most people don't want Brexit if it screws up our economy.

And that's exactly what it does.

The number of people committed to a Brexit that hurts their own country can't be very large can it?

Everything Liz Truss does seems to screw someone over. Usually us if you've read one of her "trade deals".

Brexit is a very large part of the reason we are all getting poorer and poorer. such an awful thing to happen to this country, so tory politicians and their mates could line their own pockets.

It's costing the country £100 billion a year I read in The Telegraph.
Which is why we can no longer take it for granted that an ambulance will arrive when we need one. We can't afford civilised stuff like that any more.

It’s more what both parties are willing to do to win. Labour have already said no to SM and CU - presumably because they think it matters to enough voters.

I can’t see Tories reversing much

I do think outside FOM things will change but it’s that which causes a sticking point

Oh, it’s ‘we’ and ‘our’ now - well done for correcting your prior mistakes, no longer the ‘British people’
I was just wondering if it’s cold in Moscow or the weather generally

The UK needs to get Brexit done and become a more stable country before it can negotiate re-entering the EU.

Good morning from Moscow Comrade @Blessedwithsunshine

The Kremlin concluded all UK policy objectives with Brexit. Just this one move weakens you by £2billion a week forever! More as time goes on.

We have old saying in Russia: “Country that can’t afford ambulances and operations can’t afford soldiers and tanks either!”

Brexit weakened EU a little bit too, and ruined special relationship between UK and US because Brexit causes a border that wrecks NI Good Friday Agreement.

The Single Market and Customs Union were keeping the peace in Ireland. Who knew?! (Everybody. But that didn’t stop you did it?)

It only cost us £4million in “donations” to Tory MPs in the Friends of Russia group!

It amuses us very much to have a Russian in your House of Lords. But when is a Russian not a Russian? When he has bought a golden visa from the Tories! Then he is a “UK citizen” and can make donations to The Tory Party from Putin.

We want you to leave the ECHR next, like Russia and Belarus.

Then the UN Convention on Refugees. Then the UN, then NATO.

But only for our own amusement.

You are of little strategic interest nowadays.

Our main aim is to stop Ukraine from joining EU and becoming successful and prosperous.

Like UK used to be.

Before Brexit.

Tricky when the thing that has destabilised our economy and given us 5 different Tory Prime Ministers since 2016...Is Brexit.

There's a real apathy towards the EU amongst Brits who actually live in the UK if you go out on the streets and talk to them. No one has the apetite to rejoin.

Take what a pro EU supporter claims are benefits of the EU and reverse them. E.g.

1. "We get to live and work in 27+ nations visa free" vs "we can't control who comes to work and live here from 27 nations visa free".
2. "We can trade freely with 27 nations" vs "we can't control the terms with those outside the EU that we can trade freely with".
3. "We get economic benefits from being in the EU" vs "we have to pay billions to be in the EU and we believe those economic benefits can be replicated by a normal FTA".
4. "We have the benefit of the EU having checks and balances over our national government vs "we have an unelected government and courts that can rule over our elected ones". And so on. Being in the EU has pros and cons. Just like being outside. The Pro EU side don't like to acknowledge any cons but that is in reality the only difference between Remainers and Brexit voters i.e. how we judge the pros and cons of exactly the same variables!

Would we be better off accepting FOM from the EU and flooding our coastal areas again with cheap workers while still dealing with the dinghy arrivals? If you have lived in one of the affected areas you will know what I mean.

Driving down wages again, accepting lorries thundering through the UK to Ireland which does not benefit us, accepting EU drivers to do backloads at a cost to our UK drivers? These are genuine questions - what do others think?

There's a noticeable overlap between how people who voted Remain seven years ago and people who voted Leave seven years ago describe Brexit

you still fail to make an argument against the legitimate criticism towards the EU. It pushed down wages and has for a long time mainly benefited the middle classes at the cost of the working class that saw their own wage being pushed down by employers now actually finding people who will their job for literal peanuts. but yes the middle classes get their cheap labour.

The latest study showed lower appetite to rejoin overall. Not sure re SM and CU, but politicians have taken view not to use those key words as not liked enough.

Generally people are ok with closer connections though and ease of trade presumably. Basically don’t reverse much but ok to do other stuff. On immigration people are more ok with skill based visas than boat issue.

I thought the reason politicians "don't go there" re advantages of eg joining SM/CU is to do with the key electoral seats. Labour need to win back the red wall, where there is still some/relatively more support for Brexit. So Keir Starmer for example can't risk losing votes there by talking openly about the huge damage Brexit has caused/is still causing.

Having said that a recent survey suggested that only Boston in Lincolnshire was still a Brexit supporting area so perhaps that explanation does not stack up any more.

The sad sad truth is... there is very little chance of us rejoining the EU.

We may rejoin specific elements (SM etc.), but not the EU.

Why? Because the UK has shown itself to be an unreliable negotiator; threatening to break the agreements that WE proposed, not implementing elements that we said we would etc. Even now we still are not even doing the basics for the WTO trade (we need a crazy number of vets to be able to even think of doing the sanitary checks etc on incoming food), etc.

As a result, considering that we would need a unanimous vote that we can rejoin, who in their right mind would say "yes" to the UK rejoining?

As a remainer (and proud of it), the BEST that I can hope for is joining the CU/SM and accepting that the price of some right wing loons wanting to avoid paying tax have destroyed our world political standing along with our economy.

Good, we need to look out for ourselves

The EU lunacy will unravel soon enough. See what's happening in the Netherlands with farmers, etc. We need room to maneouvre

Insisting with rejoining the EU would be like managing a narrow escape on a boat from the Titanic and then frantically paddling trying to re-embark

Hmmm - or it could be more like rushing overboard, throwing yourself on a raft with a single sail (and no navigation) while the cruise liner keeps on heading off in the Med (severely lacking in Icebergs) over the horizon with you shouting "Hahahah - See I told you! Any moment now, any moment, a LOT more people will jump overboard, just you wait. Any moment now. Any. Moment. Now....."