To think some people outsource life

[ExistenceOptional]

Some outsourcing of life is fairly normal. Using some childcare, having a weekly cleaner for those who can afford it, dog walkers, etc. But there comes a point where people seem to outsource a lot of life that is not work.

So people who have several nannies so the child is only brought to them for the fun bits of life. Having firms in to decorate your house for Christmas and put up a tree. Having staff to plan, organise and run your child's birthday party with you just showing up to welcome parents and smile as you watch. Having staff to choose and buy your kids Christmas presents.

I used to nanny for families like this and I think you just end up outsourcing life outside of work. Trying to live a personal life like this must be really unfulfilling.

Is it only women you think live unfulfilled lives if they outsource childcare, cooking, cleaning, Christmas decoration, pet care etc? Because I can assure you there are plenty of men who do just that, and have lovely fulfilled lives. Working in satisfying careers for good financial rewards and acclaim, spending their free time socialising, doing hobbies and relaxing, dropping into family life for an hour or so a day and some nice days out. Seems to work well for them so I'd not mind giving it a go.

@LobeliaBaggins Didn’t mean to quote you although I never found baking with my kids much fun as there was always too much mess and mucking about.

My Mum was a housekeeper for an aristocratic family. Very very rich. They were lovely people and very kind to her. Obviously they had a nanny for their three daughters. One day when the chauffeur brought the kids home from school. my mum answered the door. The kids ran past their mother who wanted to welcome them, and ran straight to the nanny, giving her hugs and kisses. My mum found their mother crying in the sitting room alone, she was desperately hurt. I always found this rather sad.

@ReneBumsWombats that's absolutely fine, but this is the second thread I have seen in the last week where a poster ( not you) is very concerned about the emotional neglect of children, and often baking seems to be mentioned.

Emotional care is often very culture specific. For instance, most Asians would consider the British practice of putting young babies in a separate room to be emotional neglect. Who gets to decide?

I mean, I couldn't really give two fucks how anyone else does life if I'm honest!

It seems to me that you're talking about people who choose not to parent or engage with their children. That's quite different to people who choose to outsource lots of tasks. ie the difference between outsourcing tasks and outsourcing parenting. The former is fine, the latter isn't.

Although having said that, the latter person might still be perfectly fulfilled - just not by being a parent. Certainly, I would have a very unfulfilling life if I relied on my children to be the main way I got fulfilment.

The children of absent parents probably aren't that fulfilled though. But that's a different question.

If it helps, my mother is an atrocious cook and I rarely did baking with her because she used the smoke alarm as an oven timer. I once asked if we could make toffee and all I remember is the kitchen filled with smoke and a ruined pot.

I dunno, people still worship Kate like she's some kind of superwoman, she clearly has staff to do most of the things we have to do for our kids.

Not what I’m saying at all. Absent parents come in all forms and shapes and sizes - whether they have ‘big’ jobs or part time jobs or no jobs.
I’m only saying that some people think they can outsource parenting by hiring nannies/ cooks/tutors/ Christmas tree decorators etc. and think that is enough .
the value add of being a parent is more than the sum of its parts.
some people get this, some people don’t.

Or sending babies and toddlers to Nursery every day for 8 plus hours. Or using childcare before and after school.

But these do not depend on being 'rich' so they don't matter.

Sounds great!

The only bit Id say shouldn’t really be outsourced if possible is the less fun bits of your child’s life, as this is when you really bond with them. The early mornings, the bedtimes etc. Being there for them when they’re ill in the night etc. Would be lovely just to do the daytime bits - maybe office hours - and hand them over, but life isn’t like that.

If you're not envious, OP, why do you need to comment on how other people lead their lives? You can't control what they do. Would you like to be Queen Of Everything and stop other people from 'outsourcing' the things they choose to? I am currently 'outsourcing' sorting my garden to someone who knows more about plants than I do. I also 'outsourced' fitting my kitchen to a carpenter because I wouldn't know where to start.

Ultimately every one of us is outsourcing to a degree that someone else will find 'too much' - OP included.

I wouldn’t be saying that, but there are limits and risks to that. There are two parents also so it’s often unfair that the responsibility is all on the woman. I used to work full-time and my child was in nursery 3 days a week, but that would not have been possible with my second child with SN. The mothers that I know who outsource everything really don’t have to, but they convince themselves that they do. One wanted her kids in school on lockdown but was on furlough for example.

This sums it up for me

This works for some people and not for others. That’s your aunt’s life and she’s happy, but some people enjoy taking care of their children on a daily basis. I feel sad at the thought of sending my son to boarding school and enjoy my time in the evening with him when I get home from work and at the weekends. Would love to be a stay at home mum until he starts school but it’s not financially viable. Of course money would be great for cleaners, more travel etc.

I’m not envious of your aunt on the child-rearing part, that’s her choice but it wouldn’t be for me. I remember friends at uni who had been to boarding school and had nannies and they always seems a little bit sad about it. TBH even then I felt sorry for them too that they were seen as a ‘task’ by their own parents.

I think I’d quite like to outsource pretty much everything except childcare. Cleaning, housework, shopping, laundry, etc.

I often feel I’m doing housework at the expense of spending time with my children.

Hang on, all this stuff you are moaning about being 'too much for one person' to do, who ARE you suggesting does it all?

Is it by any chance perfectly fine for the poor working mother with a full time job who is supposed to look after the kids, cook the dinners, clean the house, do the laundry, do the party etc... AS well as working?

If it's not too much for the mother to drown in work day & night to get everything done, why is less than that much apparently too much for someone who is getting paid to take on these tasks?

I think partly it depends on your background/demographic.....whether you are the person engaging someone's services (for cleaning, gardening, dog walking etc) or whether you are providng the service....although both might be possible to a degree.

In the town I live, I can only think of one or 2 friends or neighbours as well as myself , who don't have a cleaner. i mentioned this on a different thread and someone commented they didn't know anyone who did have a cleaner. Our local Facebook page is full of people asking for recommendations for cleaners, handymen, ironing services etc

On another thread, a poster said they classed a cleaner as an essential - in the same category as rent/mortgage, bills, food, fuel etc whereas for other people a cleaner would be a luxury.

Some pps have commented that (not unreasonably) women don't want to do the shitty stuff or drudge. However if I think about the types of tasks outsourced, they are often divided stereotypically (cleaners, ironing services, childcare - mostly done by other women...diy/decorating/gardening - mostly done by men....) but generally those outsourced to women are cheaper. (Eg A cleaners hourly rate is likely far less than a gardener)

@Brokendaughter When people hire someone they quite rightly expect a higher standard than an exhausted over worked mother can manage. If you hired a cleaner and the house was still a mess after she came because she didn't have time to do anything but the absolute basics, you would not be happy. Similarly most people would not be happy if a nanny just left the kids to watch YV or be on the ipad while she did other things.

My DC are grown now. And I have come to realise I know fuck all about what is good or bad parenting, beyond the very obvious. Things I worried about didn't happen, and things I failed to anticipate happened. I come from a set of people ( expatriates not aristocrats) who sent their kids to boarding school. I didn't because I wanted them close. My DC are no different from theirs. In fact theirs may be more sorted and resilient, and probably got something out of boarding school. They appear to have lovely relationships with their parents.

I find it pointless to judge other people's parenting methods.

There is a compelling argument that by outsourcing all the domestic drudgery then you have far more energy, time and enthusiasm to engage with your children.

I would LOVE to outsource cleaning!

I think so.

Last year my husband and I hosted our son’s birthday party by ourselves - we hired a church hall, hired a bouncy castle, did the decorations, did the shopping and catering by ourselves, stayed up all night making the cake, and making party bags etc. The party was fine but on the morning we were running around like blue-arsed flies, trying to get everything ready, ignoring our son. During the party we were running round catering instead of relaxing and enjoying it.

This year I’ve booked a party at the local farm park. They do everything for you - the catering, the party bags, even the cake. You turn up with your child and have fun. We just want to enjoy our son’s special day with him. If that’s outsourcing life then I’m absolutely fine with it.

How about, you worry about how
you live your life and don’t worry about how others live theirs. You do you and let them to
do them. We’re supposed to be women supporting women. No wonder feminism has such a tough time. How can we expect men to get it if women don’t?!