To think some people outsource life

[ExistenceOptional]

Some outsourcing of life is fairly normal. Using some childcare, having a weekly cleaner for those who can afford it, dog walkers, etc. But there comes a point where people seem to outsource a lot of life that is not work.

So people who have several nannies so the child is only brought to them for the fun bits of life. Having firms in to decorate your house for Christmas and put up a tree. Having staff to plan, organise and run your child's birthday party with you just showing up to welcome parents and smile as you watch. Having staff to choose and buy your kids Christmas presents.

I used to nanny for families like this and I think you just end up outsourcing life outside of work. Trying to live a personal life like this must be really unfulfilling.

@MsMarch The examples I used were things I thought people would understand more.
I don't think it matters of someone is paid to wash the car - a traditional dad job
or paid to clean the house - a traditional mum job
It is the extreme of people who try and outsource everything except fun times. For either mum or dad it leads to shallow relationships with children and pets and an unfulfilling life.

"I have done a bit of parenting and in order to feel good about myself I am going to look down on a hypothetical everyone else who I imagine has not done exactly the same bit of parenting".

Comparison is the thief of joy, OP.

What is this negative impact?

Distant, absent, disengaged parents are a problem, yes. But there are far more of those than there are mega rich people who outsource everything, and that's just the issue of not spending enough time with your own kids. What's outsourcing the gardening, cleaning, cooking, driving or whatever got to do with it? If anything, that frees up time you could spend with your family.

So leaving aside absent parents, because that's a specific issue that's really not limited to the hugely wealthy and well-served...what is this negative impact? What exactly is someone missing out on if they fairly pay a willing contractor to keep the garden, clean the house, cook the food and do the DIY? What's the problem? Why is it virtuous to do mundane shit you don't want to do when you don't have to?

Also, why the sudden mention of pets? I am lol-ing at the idea that I have a superficial relationship with my cat, due to having selfishly prioritised my career. I mean, I probably do have quite a superficial relationship with him, but I'd say the blame is more than 50% on his side due to his... being a cat.

There is another side to this, I use a nursery, cleaner and have somebody help with the horses. I did a party package for my daughters birthday at a popular children’s venue (it meant I focussed my time on her) my husband works long hours and I have no family support. I might outsource less if I had somebody to help- but doing it this way means I can focus my time outside of work on my family and animals and home life. For a lot of people outsourcing is a way of facilitating a more fulfilling life they spend with their family.

I outsource Most of my life. It works well for me but also sometimes leaves me feeling a bit disconnected from it. It's the right thing for me and my family though. The irony is that I outsource so I can do a job for someone who has completely outsourced. I think what you are doing is assuming that the task equals the fulfilment. People who outsource get the same fulfilment from different areas to you.

Okay, fine. So your premise is that lots of outsourcing, of any type, is bad.

I disagree. I think outsourcing lots of things so that you can focus on the more meaningful is fine. Outsourcing because you don't care about the outcome and/or have no intention of being part of whatever is going on is a problem, but that's not about outsourcing per se.

I have limited time. The more I can outsource, the more time I have to do the things that really matter. And FYI, that's NOT just about spending time with my children. My life is more fulfilled (also, your original question) because if I outsource more, I have time to spend with my family AND to do other things I care about like see friends, read books etc. For DH, becuase we outsource certain things, he has more time for music and sports - both things he enjoys and finds fulfilling. For my BFF, outsourcing some things means she has time to work on her art. All of these things fulfilling all of us far more than cleaning the car or organising a kids party. Last time I had the car cleaned, I used the timeto check out the lovely new coffee shop where I had the best turkish coffee I've had in years. That was fulfilling.

I used to arrange all the birthday party stuff with my eldest...village hall, entertainer, do the food and party bags myself and cleaned up afterwards. Once he got old enough to have activity parties, I discovered the joys of throwing money at a business and having them do absolutely everything while I had a coffee and he had the time of his life. It was a no brainer by the time my second came along.

They get their party, cake and candles and all the rest, and they love it. What more do I need to do? Where's the additional virtue?

Yes exactly @MsMarch to all of the above, but also it's interesting/telling how little time the OP has spent thinking what jobs these selfish women might do that means they have to outsource everything.

Working on a cure for cancer, or in an ICU, or for the UN, or in a hospice. All less important and fulfilling than personally booking a clown for a three-year-old's birthday party.

A lot of your arguments don't make sense or appear to contradict themselves. You complain about lack of fulfilment by removing the boring stuff, but then claim that the boring stuff is what makes for strong relationships with your children even in the face of loads of people pointing out how removing this stuff improves their relationships.

You claim not to judge but then you swap from unfulfilling lives to, I think, worrying that children are not getting good lives as a result?

If you're saying that you aren't experiencing "real life" if you don't sometimes have to do the real drudge work, I could sort of understand. I'd disagree though as my real life isn't the same as anyone else's. That's the glorious thing about humans - we are so diverse in our experience, desires and outcomes.

I don't think they would pay lots of money in order to feel unfulfilled tbh.

Time is most people's most precious commodity. That's why so many people work 70 hour weeks and earn megabucks but complain they don't have any time to themselves.

To be honest, even if you do want to spend your spare time watching Love Island and scratching your bum, so what? Again, assuming you're not neglecting your relationships - which is not unique to the fabulously wealthy - why shouldn't you? You can afford to outsource and you're not exploiting anyone, so why is it somehow virtuous to make your life more unpleasant and boring than it needs to be?

Oh, the desperation for parenting validation. That's what this reads like to me.

Really, you have no idea whether these parents have shallow relationships with their children or feel unfulfilled. It's just that you think they do.

Actually, most rich people strike me as perfectly happy and fulfilled. Probably because they are not being bored sick picking up paper plates for kiddie birthdays. And the kids could not care less who buys the plates.

I used to feel I/the event was only worthy if I’d done it all myself.

5 years ago for our annual Christmas party I got a planner and it was transformative. I’d been busy at work so hadn’t overthought the menu or the decorations as I would normally, instead saying “do what you think best”.

the morning of the party people descended on the house; they set up the rooms, saw to the floral arrangements, got everything ship shape. I went for lunch, then for a blow dry. I came back at 6pm got changed and lit the candles. That. Was. It!

no more living life in the mundane for me. Why would you?!

It's their choice and it creates jobs which, in turn, pay taxes. Mind your own beeswax.

As a child of parents who outsourced everything, I think it affects children. A lot of interaction with children happen when you pick them up from schoo, stop for a pain au chocolat on the way, take them to their evening lessons, cook or do gardening when they are around etc. All these in my house was done by others. I had quality time with my parents, but found our family time to be a bit forced and artificial and they were disengaged from the minutia of life that I used to find exciting as a child. I can remember literally one occasion when I baked with my mother.

Why is baking so venerated on MN? I have never baked with my DC. Probably because I don't bake at all. My mum never baked either, and I didn't care.

Honestly, a lot of that sounds brilliant. I have fantasies about the army of servants I would have to outsource my life too, if I could afford it. I’d even have a valet to tell me what to wear

DH runs a scout group and has seen kids who are effectively parented by au pairs and nannies. And it shows. They aren't a substitute for a parent because there's one thing they can't provide - and thats love.

We refer to it to a form of emotional neglect.

I think child care is fine - to a point - but there is a point where there's too much too. There's times you have to be there for your kids because they need you, not just when it fits in with your other life plans. Its all about how they fit into life in terms of being a priority.

I bake with mine because we all enjoy it. If they didn't, I'd do something else with them.

Actually, we've done a lot less since I started making a hard effort to lose the lockdown weight. But I still do things with them.

You are judgmental. We all outsource a huge amount of our lives - different people do different bits. That's the point of society. I bet you outsource things that others would prefer to keep within their control and so would judge you harshly for (if they were judgemental)

If I had the money and could budget for it, I would do some similar items

I think you're still trying to backtrack. "outsourcing everything except the fun times" what does that even mean? for me, "fun times" include watching a movie with my children on a Saturday night, dinner with DS, a trip to the cinema or a show, watching them play sports etc etc. If I could outsource all the bits around that - preparing the meal, booking the cinema/show tickets, organising their kit etc, I absolutely would and I wouldn't have a moment's concern about my relationship with my children or how fulfilled I feel.

Outsourcing for someone to cut my grass each month is best £15 ever spent. I’d happily pay double as I despise it

There’s a difference between outsourcing all the stuff you can’t/don’t want to do (cleaning, gardening etc) and outsourcing total child/pet care. Unless you’re one of those extremely rich, rather detached people who put their kids in boarding at three I think you’re being a bit too extreme to have a valid argument. Most people don’t outsource to the point of having absolutely nothing to do other than twiddle their thumbs but there’s nothing wrong with paying people to do stuff you don’t want to. If I could pay someone specifically to clear up after my dog in our garden I would.