To think some people outsource life

[ExistenceOptional]

Some outsourcing of life is fairly normal. Using some childcare, having a weekly cleaner for those who can afford it, dog walkers, etc. But there comes a point where people seem to outsource a lot of life that is not work.

So people who have several nannies so the child is only brought to them for the fun bits of life. Having firms in to decorate your house for Christmas and put up a tree. Having staff to plan, organise and run your child's birthday party with you just showing up to welcome parents and smile as you watch. Having staff to choose and buy your kids Christmas presents.

I used to nanny for families like this and I think you just end up outsourcing life outside of work. Trying to live a personal life like this must be really unfulfilling.

100% this. I have one child with significant SN and this makes it even more obvious, you cannot outsource being a parent. No amount of after school clubs, nannies, therapists can substitute for at least one parent really knowing their child (and I speak as someone who has used nurseries, after school clubs, not knocking them but they are additions are not replacements).

Sounds like 'Click'.

No I am saying that outsourcing everything has a negative impact. And I have said everyone outsources some things. It is up to you what you outsource. Most outsourced jobs are women's because the only jobs men traditionally do around the house is occasional DIY, mowing lawns and washing the car. Loads of people now outsource those jobs too.

I would absolutely do this! But this is a nice one off and also a nightmare to organise - when I discovered local children’s play parties for £100 I was made up! I think the OP is talking about everything being outsourced, all the time?

The other night i was daydreaming what i would buy if I'd won the 7mill jackpot on Saturday.

Not a single thing on my list was materialistic in terms of expensive cars or designer clothes. It was all 'help' such as a full time cleaner, housekeeper, nanny, chef etc. If i was rich enough to do it, i would 😂

@Sunnysideup999 @CherriesSpring I don't think anyone would disagree with you that you can't outsource parenting. But are you implying/saying that women with big jobs and fewer hours with their kids don't also know them, care for them, are there for important events, listen to their problems etc? Because that's slightly what it sounds like...

@ExistenceOptional Where is your data/evidence that outsourcing of the type you describe has a negative impact? And a negative impact on who? Are you surveying the children 30 years later to see how well adjusted they are? Or is this back to your point that the parents aren't personally fulfilled? (even though we all think we are...)

"My point is outsourcing the bits you do not want to do just leads to an unfulfilling personal life."

I am not seeing how paying someone else to do things you hate would lead to an unfulfilled life.

If I could have outsourced toilet-training, I definitely would have done...

Ditto outsourcing cleaning up after a child being sick, and any amount of cleaning and cooking.

I'd also outsource Interior design and decorating if I could afford it.

My life is is not more fulfilled because I chose my own wall paint, cooked my own Sunday roast, sorted out my own mortgage or organised a party or any number of other things I did myself.

Essentially, I did these things myself because they needed to be done and I could not pay or otherwise convince someone else to do it.

You value what you choose to (and therefore take pleasure in doing these things yourself) but it doesn't mean that others value them in the same way.

I'm also interested in how old the OP's children are, if she has children.

Once you get into the teenage years, I can assure you that they tend not to value the sacrifices you made trashing your career to hang out with them at toddler groups ten plus years ago. On the other hand, they do tend to be quite appreciative if you have proper time and money to spend doing really good things with them now they're older in the evenings and at the weekends. Not to mention even some admiration for and interest in the career they see that you have.

I disagree outsourcing leads to an unfulfilling life!! Quite the opposite imo
I have a disability which seriously impairs my ability to walk... I also have a gorgeous dog who enriches my life immensely so I pay a daily dog Walker who has become a friend for a daily run.
If people have money to outsource help. Why shouldn't they?
It also creates employment

If I had the money, I would 100% outsource a hell of a lot.
I'd have a full time housekeeper, a cook, a handyman, a gardener etc
I'd have an interior designer, decorator for Christmas and events and a stylist and full time PT.

Honestly, I'd love it 😂

Outsourcing a children's party is saying to a party planner can you organise a party for my 7 year old DD. Nanny will give you details of friends and you can talk to her about themes although I want it to be tasteful.

Honestly, you are just being judgey here. 1. the number of people who do this is very small. 2. if I had the money, I'd outsource a total landscaping solution and I'd provide just one instruction - it needs to be colourful and kept neat. I DO outsource a lot of my clothing selection - I tell Stitchfix roughly what sort of things I want and they send it over. Does this mean my life is less fulfilling becuase I'm not spending hours trawling the shops?

Most outsourced jobs are women's because the only jobs men traditionally do around the house is occasional DIY, mowing lawns and washing the car. Loads of people now outsource those jobs too.

And this is exactly my point. YOu're saying that the jobs outsource by WOMEN are bad. You don't seem to care about the jobs outsource by men. And you're not judging the many many many men who choose NOT to do these things and instead let their partners do it (and I'm not even talking about Disney dads here). You haven't once said, "well, in a couple where the man works long hours and chooses to outsource everything to his partner, he must have a less unfulfilled life."

@MsMarch That is not true. I have said men outsourcing all work to their wife or paid help is bad as well.

That’s probably what a lot of these parents do. They agree with their children what they want in regard to their party. That’s the brief which is handed off to people who do the stuff a child wouldn’t be involved with. Booking venues and entertainment , organising food and party bits. Setting it all up and keeping the food and drink flowing.

you find value in doing all that yourself. Which is great but it doesn’t give you a platform to judge people who don’t find value in and would rather use the time to do something they find valuable.

No, you really haven't. This is what you've said about dads:

But these parents do end up being Disney dads, both the mum and dad. This was a bit of a vague response to someone pointing out that Disney Dads (ie men who choose to swoop in occasionally to tae their kids out for a fun day) deserve criticism, not someone who is getting a cleaner or outsourcing a party.

Then later, @minipie points out that lots of men outsource all this to women and seem fulfilled and you reply, again somewhat vaguelly with, Lots of men have pretty superficial relationships with their kids. 
But no not all men do this.

That's the sum total of what you've said about men.

And what is valuable? Going to the gym? Working? Going out drinking with friends?

And no this kind of parent does not get a detailed brief together because things like where is the party, what is the theme,. what food, what decorations, what party bag? what activities, who to invite, how many, what kind of invites? These are the things that take time to work out with a child. Phoning up an agreed venue and hiring an entertainer or two, getting invites sent out - these do not take much time at all unless you are having a mega party. I am not contrasting it with parties where parents make their own sandwiches. But parties where parents buy a party package say at soft play, or go kart racing, or afternoon tea. If you have an afternoon tea for your daughter and her friends, the actual booking is the smallest part of organising.

@MsMarch I have tried not to be really condemning of either mums or dads. If that is what you are looking for you will not get it. I have been explaining why outsourcing reaches a tipping point. Some outsourcing is normal, but once you pass the tipping point it affects the relationship mums and dads have with their children and pets and their own fulfilment in life.
As I said lots of men who are Disney dads do have superficial relationships with their children. I said not all dads because not all dads behave as Disney dads and some indeed do the actual caring and grunt work. My DH does.

I out source as much as I possibly can. I have a cleaner who also does our laundry and a man who comes and keeps the garden tidy and does DIY. I have my car valeted regularly and use a grocery box subscription. When I don't cook we get take away meals from our local restaurant. When our DCs moved away to university we used a local small removal company to do all the lifting and carrying and transporting. When we go on holiday we use a small local travel agents to organise everything for us and we just pay the balance.

Neither my husband or I have any interest in doing any of the above chores because we find them boring and drudgery. But we're very far from unfulfilled I can promise you. I have several hobbies which I love and lots of friends and I spend my life doing the stuff I really enjoy. I fail to see anything fulfilling in mending your own guttering or cleaning your own oven.

Congrats on being a better parent, and person, than others, OP.

I can' work out if this focus on outsourcing kids parties is because it's the example we've all picked up or if it's the thing that has you so enraged. But I still don't get it. DD and I agreed exactly what would happen at her party in the 8 minute drive to school last week, including who she will invite.

The TIME and EFFORT was in 1. contacting all the parents to let them know as it's a bit complicated and some of her friends parents are a little precious so might need some hand holding 2. researching the correct venue and figuring out the logistics re timing including travel etc then booking tickets. 3. making the effort to buy the party bags, decide what to put in them , fill them etc.

You're really massively over egging the bit that matters and thinking it takes up way more time than it does.

And as MsMarch keeps asking - does this mean you think that men who don't do this, either because they outsource to a nanny or to a wife, are living unfulfilled lives?

Thanks! Nice to be recognised.

@BlingLoving I am not mad. It makes me a bit sad. The children's parties is what others have focused on and the more major issues of constant nannies is ignored. Parties are not a big deal. Its more about extreme outsourcing when the aim is simply to swoop in for the good bits so both parents effectively become Disney dads in their own life and their home becomes like a managed hotel suite.

Guess, it’s what you deem to be boring. Would hate to not plan parties, but would love someone to cook every night. Foodies, however would be miserable having their hobby taken away. Horses for courses.

@ExistenceOptional ... and I'll ask again, because yet again you've said 'it affects the relationship mums and dads have with their children and their own fulfilment in life '... what evidence can you point to that backs up this claim?

You asked people here - everyone on the thread who outsources significant amounts of stuff says they feel more not less fulfilled. Do you think we're all lying? And have you surveyed our children and found them unhappier than your own? Or is this all just pure guesswork and wishful thinking on your part?

I have tried not to be really condemning of either mums or dads. If that is what you are looking for you will not get it.

Except that you are consistently complaining about outsourcing of tasks that are traditionally done by women. It's not a HUGE stretch to assume you're more focused on women.

I have been explaining why outsourcing reaches a tipping point. Some outsourcing is normal, but once you pass the tipping point it affects the relationship mums and dads have with their children and pets and their own fulfilment in life.
Well no, you've got this weird theory that some kinds of outsourcing reduce people's fulfilment because you seem to think that not doing the cleaning or the party organising means that parents can't have a relationship with their children. Which is weird. As I said earlier - if you're complaining about parents who don't even turn up to the party, or attend the school play, or go to the brownies camp out, that's a different argument.

As I said lots of men who are Disney dads do have superficial relationships with their children. I said not all dads because not all dads behave as Disney dads and some indeed do the actual caring and grunt work. My DH does.
But, as I said before, even the "good dads" tend not to do the kind of work that you're complaining about being outsourced. My DH is the DC"s primary carer, yet your examples - organising parties, buying presents - is almost exclusively done by me. And that's true of most of the families I know. A man who is pulling his weight is nonetheless still less likely to be doing these specific things.

Also, superficial relationships is completely different to "unfulfilling lives" The less involved you are with your children, absolutely the more likely you are to have a superficial relationship. But I can assure you that removing the drudge work from my life does nothing except enhance relationships with my children and that's true for the vast majority of parents I know.