BIL wants us to pay for their lifestyle

[MsPorridge]

Sorry for my English: not a native speaker. BIL has asked my partner to give them money every month because they "can't cope" with all the expenses.

My partner went to visit his brother and his family last week. I wasn't there. Brother started asking partner how we are coping with cost of living and partner was just honest and said that energy bills are more expensive, etc. but because our expenses have always been so low, we are ok. Brother kept asking questions and partner did not think of any hidden intentions and answered and gave details about our financial situation (they were not very specific but it was just made clear that we were able to save around 2000 per month, except when there is some unexpected cost that month).

For some background: we have no children, no car, no pets, love cooking our own meals, no expensive hobby and maybe we are just very busy to spend money (we spend our time volunteering for different causes, doing exercise, love going on walks which is free...). This is just how we enjoy our life and the saving part just naturally happens. We also own our flat outright because we bought a small one (we could have afforded a much bigger place but not complaining, it was just what we felt we needed) and payed our mortgage quickly. Now we make around 3000 per month combined, so not really a high-income by any means, but it's fine for our situation. Most months we only spend like 1000 and the rest goes to savings/investments. It does help that I've never been interested in make-up or having lots of nice clothes, none of us drink alcohol, etc.

Going back to the problem: his brother started almost crying to him asking if we could give them around 500 per month during an indefinite amount of time to help with the expenses. My partner is a really soft person who always wants to help everyone. I've had a few arguments with him because of this. So he didn't say a straight no and from what he has told me he made it sound like he would talk with me about it and almost like a yes. Apparently the brother said things like "it wouldn't make any difference to you two, right? It seems you are really very comfortable with your life but we are really struggling at the moment". He also mentioned how my partner had to go back to stay with their mum and stayed rent-free for a year (this was 10 years ago and he still seems bitter and about it) as if somehow this justifies what he's asking.

They have 3 children, live in a much nicer and bigger house than us, have 2 expensive cars, 1 dog, 1 cat and 2 rabbits, I see pictures of them dinning out often or going away for the weekend with the whole family, always seem to have new fancy clothes, always redecorating the house, and children have a few expensive hobbies/after-school activities etc. Which I'm happy for them and don't feel any jealousy about but also don't see this is a desperate situation in which they are asking for money to put a meal on the table or pay the mortgage. They just need to adjust. My partner feels very sad for them and thinks it's not fair for the children not to be able to enjoy their life as usual. I feel very very angry that his brother feels entitled to my partner's money just because he has chosen to live a frugal life.

I am really disappointed with my partner for allowing this to happen. Please help. He has agreed with me that is totally unacceptable to ask but does not want to upset him.

3k between you is not a particularly high household income. Good for you for living frugally and being able to save so much on that income, but a lot of families will earn that and have nothing left each month. Or be struggling.

Do you know what your BIL income is? I wouldn’t be surprised if it was similar or higher than yours to be able to afford that lifestyle in the first place.

Do not give them money. Help them with their budget if you wish, but they will never stop asking. You won’t be paying for the kids swimming lessons, you’ll be paying for your BIL to go to dinner. Something that you don’t do yourself!

If they were on the bread line (an aunt of mine had a left an abusive relationship and was really struggling her siblings banded together to support her with her mortgage for a few months while she sorted out her work situation/got herself into a better place mentally). My mum still occasionally gifts her sister smallish cash gifts a few times a year. My aunt has a disabled son and daughter with mental health issues and works nights to be there during the day for him. It’s a super sad situation of course abusive uncle has left them all (moved to another country remarried and has a new family) but thank got he’s gone and we needed as a family to support her as he could well have used finances to control them.

What I’ve written is completely different and it’s why family does help. Tell your DH to tell his brother that you’ve spoken and you can’t do it

Offer to sit down with them and work through a budget.

I'd be putting my foot down.

Maybe a generous one off for fuel bills etc but if your seeing meals out. New purchases etc is absolutely never do it again.

And most definitely not a regular payment. That will never end well.

Start looking for a bigger house and garden, something that is more suitable for when you are older. Your money is far better invested in bricks and mortar, even if it means taking out another mortgage. With a nicer house and garden you won't have money to give to this greedy brother. If they want to live an expensive lifestyle that's down to them. Problem solved, your DH has a way out of giving this extra money and his brother will just have to cut back his outgoings.

Jesus Christ the cheek of it. Like pp said, I would ask the brother for a breakdown of his expenses and offer to help with budgeting. Cheeky bastard trying to take what you work hard for while living the life of Riley.
Your husband need to get a backbone. I would be utterly furious about this.

Think long term.

You two are not being supported by big employers pension contributions.

Your BIL, though he doubtless has big mortgage payments now, will end up with far more equity in property and the capacity to downsize to release equity. You two will not.

In your shoes OP I would not put a penny towards your BIL’s car or meals out, which leaves your DH potentially giving 50% of his available money to his brother. Working two days a week to maintain his brother’s lifestyle.

The only issue is it has a knock on effect on your joint savings. But if you're saving around £2k a month that's hardly an issue really apart from in principle.

Are you on glue ??? There are so many issues around this, the main one being that BIL has a much more expensive lifestyle and on realising that he’s living beyond his means, instead of looking to adjust it to make savings he’s asking the OP and her DH to fund it !! And I’ll bet BILs income is more than that of the OP and her DH. And the knock on effect on their savings is a big issue. Their income isn't massive by todays’ standards and they’re being wise in saving as much as they can while things are as uncertain as they are in the world.

What’s unreasonable is the BIL questioning around their finances to see how much they can afford to contribute and then putting them on the spot. I’d be furious if my DH openly discussed our finances with anyone, and even more furious if he agreed to pay this money out of joint finances.

YANBU, I wouldn't be happy with this. They are trying it on because you are child free.

I would buy a bigger property instead of saving the money, this will shut them up too. I know you said you are investing too.

What your partner should suggest doing is helping his brother go through all his bills and expenses. Once he has done this he can suggest ways of living more frugally. Ie you are spending £400 on the second car if you got a smaller one it would cost you £200 or do you really need the second car? You are spending £200 per month on take a ways, if you bought the ingredients it would only cost you £30. Look you’ve saved yourself £500 per month and don’t need it from me!
he could start the conversation like ‘ I see that you are very stressed about money, let me help you with how I manage my finances to see if this will help you’.

Maybe a one off lump sum. But with a clear message that this really is a one off..

What would help more than a monthly allowance would be to open up discussions about spending patterns.

You appear to be living within your income. They are living beyond their income and could almost certainly cut back without much pain. (Even allowing for the fact that they have 3 children)

Make sure that your savings are in your name.

I have a brother like this, his wife cannot live within their means and he is weak. Unfortunately my parents have not done them any favours by bailing them out in the past. They always word it as “we can’t pay the mortgage, we might lose the house” when in fact they’ve been redecorating or changing to different doors and windows because grey is in fashion now, or having catered parties or whatever. It literally never ends with people like this.

Recommend a financial advice service or offer to help them budget, but don’t give them money unless a one-off emergency contingent on them actually doing the budgeting thing.

And tell them you’re saving for a house yourselves…it’s probably easier to give them a concrete reason even if it’s not true. Just to save aggravation.

I think a better solution is to give BIL some financial advice and help to budget because it seems they are worlds apart where this is concerned. It sounds as though if they scrutinised their spending habits they’d easily find the £500 extra they need each month.

This. You have a DH problem not a BIL issue.

There is no way it is acceptable for either of you to discuss your financial details with family members unless the other partner has given explicit consent and even then it’s a risky thing to do. You are both contributing to your financial situation and decisions - not just DHs contributions and therefore not his entirely to discuss with anyone. Same applies to you

id be horrified, and see it as a massive breach of trust if my partner or husband ever discussed with a member of their family how much “we “ earnt, put in savings, or spent each month . His sheer thoughtlessness, arrogance and entitlement that somehow it was all his to have the right to discuss with anyone he wanted without your consent

i would be giving a pretty strong ultimatum: do not ever, ever discuss our financial situation with family members again or it’s the end of the marriage and explain why (the sheer arrogance, selfishness and entitlement ) . And he needs to tell his brother that the answer is no and that he is not going to discuss finances with him or his parents ever again. DH must committ to you to shut such conversations down instantly by putting phone down, saying a polite goodbye and leaving etc.

im not saying that when family members are in real need that you don’t help. But IMHE you know that without having to talk about detials of finances. Usually becuase you hear about them loosing jobs or struggling to get work, that they have to sell their home, or downsize on rental, that children are missing out on things that are part of school basic experiences, or kids are entitled to free school meals. You just get to know these real hardships within the family. At that point you and partner can make joint decision if you want to offer some support by paying for specific things. Like replacing a conked out car so they can continue to get to work/get kids to school, a new washing machine or other white goods that is beyond repair and essential, or pay for a school trip for their kids, or even the urgent blazer or shoes the kids have grown out of. No way would I write a blank cheque to someone to help them out- it would always be targeted support for something I knew they needed. And it would always be a joint discussion first , not something the other partner had already offered or agreed to with the family member in need. Not unless they were paying for the gifting direct from their own personal allowance type account (e.g. money you each have , each month for your own expenses with no questions asked)

What an awful thing to say. If the OP is happy with her life, then how she spends her money is up to her.

Also, if 'not taking drugs' makes you a 'misery', then I too am also a misery.

Could you consider a compromise? You said you don't want the children to have to stop doing their activities, could you find out how much they are and offer to pay for them for a limited time, say a year, "to allow you some time to look at your budget"? Then you could pay directly for the activity and know that the children would get to keep doing it?

This is the absolute most I would do.But I wonder if the BIL can be trusted to give an accurate account of how much those activities cost, and that the money would go on them? I suspect they'd magically add up to 500.

Personallly I'd want to say 'we have this money in savings because we don't have expensive cars, or go out for meals, spenda lot on clothes, redecorate often etc etc. I think you need to cut down on those expenses before you start begging from others'

Possible brother has huge debts too & you really don’t want to get involved in those.

Ugh 😑 no and no some more
I bet they have Disney plus and Netflix and such like. There's loads they can do to help their own situation. The offer I would be giving is financial advice only
Stick to your guns

my guess is that the BIL is in far deeper debt than he's admitting to, more than a couple of nice cars, meals out, clothes etc.

Your DH could offer to help him with working out loan repayments, budgeting etc but given they seem to live high on the hog I wouldn't be offering to subsidise that lifestyle.

Perhaps BILs wife doesn't know the extent of the debt and he's scared of reining her spending in.

Time for BIL to man up and face his financial responsibilities. It's not for you and your DH to bail them out.

Your partner had no right sharing such personal information which your BIL is now using to demand handouts.
I’d be refusing . Your lifestyle works for you, you are planning for the future. Their lifestyle is their choice.

IF (and it sounds like a big if) your BIL had made all the cut-backs that it was possible to make and was still struggling then I would offer to help. No way would I agree to an ongoing monthly sub - that’s outrageous! But I might offer to pay for the kids hobbies for a few months or something so that they do not suffer. Your BIL is cheeky beyond belief!!

It's a shame the BIL can't put family above his recreational spending. Oh you didn't mean that did you? I am sure the OP and her partner would help if if was a case of need rather than want. Why should BIL's indulgent lifestyle be subsidized by his brother and the OP? Why can't BIL budget? Why is it up to others to make sacrifices so the all important BIL doesn't have to cut back on frequent redecorations, regular expensive holidays, regular eating out and luxury cars? Why can't Mr Fancy Pants fucking well budget like normal people?

Offer to help by sitting with them and creating a spreadsheet of their income and expenditure with them. It will probably open their eyes!

@MsPorridge my exh's sis is like this & has broken people along the way including her parents. I have an extended family member whom I helped out (believing it was a one off) but then came to realise that other family members had been tapped also & that there was a gambling issue. Dh's exw is like this too & honestly the more he gives her the worse she gets. The asking never stops.
Do NOT go down the road of giving this man money & if your dh insists on doing so separate your finances asap.
Offer to assist with financial planning by all means but leave it at that.

The biggest issue I see here is that your dh saw fit to discuss your personal finances with a third party & for that alone I would be furious & that would actually make me want to separate my finances out from his.