BIL wants us to pay for their lifestyle

[MsPorridge]

Sorry for my English: not a native speaker. BIL has asked my partner to give them money every month because they "can't cope" with all the expenses.

My partner went to visit his brother and his family last week. I wasn't there. Brother started asking partner how we are coping with cost of living and partner was just honest and said that energy bills are more expensive, etc. but because our expenses have always been so low, we are ok. Brother kept asking questions and partner did not think of any hidden intentions and answered and gave details about our financial situation (they were not very specific but it was just made clear that we were able to save around 2000 per month, except when there is some unexpected cost that month).

For some background: we have no children, no car, no pets, love cooking our own meals, no expensive hobby and maybe we are just very busy to spend money (we spend our time volunteering for different causes, doing exercise, love going on walks which is free...). This is just how we enjoy our life and the saving part just naturally happens. We also own our flat outright because we bought a small one (we could have afforded a much bigger place but not complaining, it was just what we felt we needed) and payed our mortgage quickly. Now we make around 3000 per month combined, so not really a high-income by any means, but it's fine for our situation. Most months we only spend like 1000 and the rest goes to savings/investments. It does help that I've never been interested in make-up or having lots of nice clothes, none of us drink alcohol, etc.

Going back to the problem: his brother started almost crying to him asking if we could give them around 500 per month during an indefinite amount of time to help with the expenses. My partner is a really soft person who always wants to help everyone. I've had a few arguments with him because of this. So he didn't say a straight no and from what he has told me he made it sound like he would talk with me about it and almost like a yes. Apparently the brother said things like "it wouldn't make any difference to you two, right? It seems you are really very comfortable with your life but we are really struggling at the moment". He also mentioned how my partner had to go back to stay with their mum and stayed rent-free for a year (this was 10 years ago and he still seems bitter and about it) as if somehow this justifies what he's asking.

They have 3 children, live in a much nicer and bigger house than us, have 2 expensive cars, 1 dog, 1 cat and 2 rabbits, I see pictures of them dinning out often or going away for the weekend with the whole family, always seem to have new fancy clothes, always redecorating the house, and children have a few expensive hobbies/after-school activities etc. Which I'm happy for them and don't feel any jealousy about but also don't see this is a desperate situation in which they are asking for money to put a meal on the table or pay the mortgage. They just need to adjust. My partner feels very sad for them and thinks it's not fair for the children not to be able to enjoy their life as usual. I feel very very angry that his brother feels entitled to my partner's money just because he has chosen to live a frugal life.

I am really disappointed with my partner for allowing this to happen. Please help. He has agreed with me that is totally unacceptable to ask but does not want to upset him.

Oh grow up. The OP said they spend a lot of time volunteering and keeping active.

But at least she’s not an absolute dick, unlike some.

You’re weird. Go back to your drugs and leave the op alone.

For an attempt at family harmony I would suggest giving them £1000 as a once off emergency payment but no more.

And I would not discuss money with BIL ever again.

Oh yes, miserable life living with no money worries, not smoking or taking drugs, and not having kids.

So, all you out there in MN land who don't smoke, take drugs or have kids, I hope you have taken note.

So they've spent all their money and now want to spend all yours too?

Fuck that. People like that never run out of things spend money on. £500 won't touch the sides.

Make it clear you are comfortable because you live a simple, but lovely lifestyle and offer to go through their budget with them to cut costs - Moneysaving Expert is a great resource for this, but otherwise, don't give them any money.

Could you consider a compromise? You said you don't want the children to have to stop doing their activities, could you find out how much they are and offer to pay for them for a limited time, say a year, "to allow you some time to look at your budget"? Then you could pay directly for the activity and know that the children would get to keep doing it?

I think that your DH should tell BIL that while there are lots of ‘lifestyle’ economies to be made he doesn’t feel able to help while he himself is on £xxK salary.

You really are not high income each if that’s is your combined take home and I am presuming that this means your employers pension contributions are also low in terms of value. So your savings are crucial. (Are you making payments into a private pension?).

I would always help family who were really struggling, if I could. But money on expensive cars is just wasteful, any old cheap to run / cheap to ensure car is fine for getting to work.

Your DH was naive to give details to his brother, and will hopefully now see the greed and entitlement behind the request.

Support him to be assertive, it isn’t easy saying no to family, but don’t let him make you out to be the baddie!

I'm sorry, but I couldn't finish your post without thinking how much of a cow you sound.

If your DH does end up giving something, then he should give it to them in Tesco vouchers or similar so he knows it’s being used properly.

Just don't give money, as you many have an extremely long wait to get it back.

No. No no no no no no. And no again. This can definitely be typical of a culture but your BIL sounds like he’s been used to getting the better of his brother all his life. Spell it out to your DH that this won’t be happening, love the pp who suggested saying ‘we’re saving up so we can afford a lifestyle like yours’ but I fear the BIL is too arrogant to get it. Just no. Sending you hugs because I too grew up in a culture like this.

I can see why you’re upset with him.

Perhaps it would help your DP if instead of an outright “No” he said he’d be happy to sit down with his brother and go over his brother’s expenses to show him how to live within his means and save some money the way you two do. Then he can point out things like the meals out and the trips and say things like - “If we did that sort of thing, we wouldn’t have as much money either.” Or “I’m happy to support you if it’s the difference between you being housed or homeless, but I’m not giving up my savings so you can drive a new car or [wife] can have another designer handbag.”

Ooh I can just imagine you doing a little cats bum mouth when you wrote that 🤭

I think it's unreasonable to tell your DP he can't help his brother from hi own surplus income. The only issue is it has a knock on effect on your joint savings. But if you're saving around £2k a month that's hardly an issue really apart from in principle. So id say you tell him it's his money and he can do what he likes with it, but for as long as he's putting his extra towards his brother you will be putting an equivalent of your extra somewhere other than joint - a personal savings acct, increasing your pension payment, something for you only. Then when he goes back to contributing equally to joint, then so do you.

I’m not against financial help to family especially if things are very dire - eg they’re at risk of house being repossessed.
I could never send a monthly subsidy though especially as you are not well off at all, you’re just very frugal.

A one-off gift to get them out of a hole while they make major changes would be fine with me but they would need to be making changes.

No way, they need to either work more or send less. My brother is exactly the same. Can't keep a job because he can't resist telling his bosses that he'd do a better job of running the business than them( keep your mouth shut like everyone else) has to have latest of everything ( iPhone ect) wife stay at home mum( in theory great but youngest is 15- if money is tight get a job) I'm sick of hearing how 'lucky' we are to have paid off our mortgage ( sensible decisions and not waisting money). Does he never think everyone had days they can't be bothered to work but 99% of us still do. He's still living with my mum and sponging off her and I genuinely believe when she passes away he will expect me to start paying his bills. He's in for a nasty shock but will spend the rest of his life telling people how horrible I am. Don't get involved in his poor choices

I wouldn't let your DH give them a penny.

If however he wants to do something for his nieces and nephews he could start a savings plan for when they hit adulthood as doesn't seem like they'll be getting much from their DPs. Plus for say £100 a month your DH can say he's investing for his relatives and DB really can't argue with that, because he is. Make sure it's an account the DPs can't access though.

I would be furious if my partner discussed our finances with anyone TBH. Sounds as though he played right into BIL’s hands. No way would I agree to subsidising this manat all, let alone what amounts to a quarter of your monthly savings - and indefinitely ?

I would point out the differences in your lifestyles and suggest that their lifestyle suggests they have enough to manage fine if they rethink some of their choices and adjust -the way most people are aging to at the moment.

An excellent idea, rookie I will look into that

I would say no, not happening to Dh, then I’d tell him together so that H doesn’t have to do it alone, and it’s clear that there is no wiggle room.

tell him that you don’t want to be involved in his finances as you’d have to see what their current expenditure is and what could get cut before agreeing to any handouts and that’s inappropriate

further he needs to be told that details of your finances are off limits, confidential and personal and you aren’t dumb enough to mix money with family. It causes resentment and trouble.

Op it would be a big fat No from me.

It doesn't take a genius to work out doing jobs x & y you and DH must have roughly z income.
No kids, no car, no expensive hobbies and small house you must have a reasonable amount of disposable income.

Bil knew that before he started asking questions. He's manipulated your DH into a corner. Cheeky Fucker!

From the outside looking in you could be saving for a bigger house,
spending on fertility treatments,
dreaming of early retirement,
Looking for a better work / life balance ie reducing working hours.

Don't compromise your life for Bil.

You might enjoy your frugal lifestyle, but it sounds like the only reason why you have more money than BIL is because he's spending money on things you have chosen not to.

I'd never see my BIL on the streets. If he couldn't afford to pay priority bills like his mortgage, council tax or fuel, then yes, I'd give him £500 a month. But it sounds like he could afford it himself if he cut back on other expenses.

This guy has to learn to budget first, and after grilling your DH on his costs, he needs to be transparent about his own income and expenses before you even consider helping him. After seeing the numbers, I'm expecting the help needed will not be money, but 'you could cancel that', 'you could reduce that if you shopped around' and other such helpful budgeting advice.