BIL wants us to pay for their lifestyle

[MsPorridge]

Sorry for my English: not a native speaker. BIL has asked my partner to give them money every month because they "can't cope" with all the expenses.

My partner went to visit his brother and his family last week. I wasn't there. Brother started asking partner how we are coping with cost of living and partner was just honest and said that energy bills are more expensive, etc. but because our expenses have always been so low, we are ok. Brother kept asking questions and partner did not think of any hidden intentions and answered and gave details about our financial situation (they were not very specific but it was just made clear that we were able to save around 2000 per month, except when there is some unexpected cost that month).

For some background: we have no children, no car, no pets, love cooking our own meals, no expensive hobby and maybe we are just very busy to spend money (we spend our time volunteering for different causes, doing exercise, love going on walks which is free...). This is just how we enjoy our life and the saving part just naturally happens. We also own our flat outright because we bought a small one (we could have afforded a much bigger place but not complaining, it was just what we felt we needed) and payed our mortgage quickly. Now we make around 3000 per month combined, so not really a high-income by any means, but it's fine for our situation. Most months we only spend like 1000 and the rest goes to savings/investments. It does help that I've never been interested in make-up or having lots of nice clothes, none of us drink alcohol, etc.

Going back to the problem: his brother started almost crying to him asking if we could give them around 500 per month during an indefinite amount of time to help with the expenses. My partner is a really soft person who always wants to help everyone. I've had a few arguments with him because of this. So he didn't say a straight no and from what he has told me he made it sound like he would talk with me about it and almost like a yes. Apparently the brother said things like "it wouldn't make any difference to you two, right? It seems you are really very comfortable with your life but we are really struggling at the moment". He also mentioned how my partner had to go back to stay with their mum and stayed rent-free for a year (this was 10 years ago and he still seems bitter and about it) as if somehow this justifies what he's asking.

They have 3 children, live in a much nicer and bigger house than us, have 2 expensive cars, 1 dog, 1 cat and 2 rabbits, I see pictures of them dinning out often or going away for the weekend with the whole family, always seem to have new fancy clothes, always redecorating the house, and children have a few expensive hobbies/after-school activities etc. Which I'm happy for them and don't feel any jealousy about but also don't see this is a desperate situation in which they are asking for money to put a meal on the table or pay the mortgage. They just need to adjust. My partner feels very sad for them and thinks it's not fair for the children not to be able to enjoy their life as usual. I feel very very angry that his brother feels entitled to my partner's money just because he has chosen to live a frugal life.

I am really disappointed with my partner for allowing this to happen. Please help. He has agreed with me that is totally unacceptable to ask but does not want to upset him.

This is outrageous. The brother should be totally ashamed of himself, he should downsize his cars or downsize his house. We all have to cut our cloths to suit at times as necessary.

I wouldn’t even dream of asking a brother for £50 as a one-off. You and your DH should cut all ties with this gross individual.

It’s cheeky of spendthrifts to expect frugal family members to subsidise their lifestyle, just because “family”.

My DF came from a culture where family members who were doing ok were expected to subsidise the folks back home. Every year my grandmother would ask him to send a cheque to cover the house insurance. When her house was destroyed by fire it transpired it was uninsured (after cashing the cheque Granny had given the money to another family member to pay the bill, who pocketed it).

Granny demanded that my DF and the two siblings who also worked abroad and sent money home, to cash in their savings to pay towards rebuilding (but not the golden child who had spent the insurance money on themselves!)

My DF kept sending money home until he retired!

Could it be your BIL is in lots of debt, OP, and that might be why he was almost in tears etc? So he perhaps feels a bit desperate.

However it is certainly not OK to be asking your lower paid sibling to subsidise a more extravagant lifestyle than they could have themselves. He needs to look at his budget, and if he is in debt get professional help with that (Stepchange etc). His family might need to downsize if things are really serious. Someone (your DP) needs to get that over to him.

Maybe, like pps have said, your DP can give a one-off gift of £1k or £2k (so a month of your savings,) if he is upset about having to disappoint his brother. Absolutely no to ongoing support though. I am all for families helping each other, but normally it's the richer ones helping the poorer ones, not the other way around! Unless there are special circumstances, eg an expensive operation required etc.

Your BIL has shown himself to be a bitter and begrudging person by bringing up a year your DP spent living back with parents rent free which was all of ten years ago, and not really his business. Makes you think would he be generous in helping you if you needed it, probably not. He's a taker I think, and mean too. Or that's how he's coming across.

The ought to be embarrassed. Why should you subsidise their lifestyle. They should sell ine of the cars and change their lifestyle.

Firstly @MsPorridge , your English is excellent so don't worry about that!
Your DH really shouldn't go around telling everyone your private business, even to his own DB, and especially now your BIL knows you do have spare money which makes this really awkward.
Either your BIL is in debt or is spending way too much for his income but neither of those is your problem- if you and your DH manage to save on a smaller income then so could your BIL. I might lend him some money but only if he showed me all his finances, I'd want to see how much they earned and exactly where it went, no way would I lend/give my money to someone who would just waste it. As for the monthly gift he wants, not a chance in Hell, when he goes out to dinner and on holiday he doesn't need your money

I'd be putting money into pensions rather than funding someone's lavish lifestyle

Tell him to f#^k off

It's wonderful, isn't it? I've been using it since the early years, when it was just a guy in a dorm working out how to support his girl, and lo! a spreadsheet and method were born. I followed along on pencil and paper for a while until my OS was supported. Some 20 years later, and it's an international business offering mulri-platform software which has helped countless people around the world. A shining example of a good thing made by good people in this world.

I’ve read the whole thread and I think this is the shortest, most succinct and all encompassing response so far, and probably the only one the OP needs !! Well done !!

I get what you are saying but wouldnt it be much more entertaining to keep sending them links to sites that help you to budget, after all 'f#^k off' is such a blunt tool, I think we should be more creative 💃

Exactly this!

@MsPorridge has your husband made a decision on how best to approach this dilemma? Or spoken to his brother yet?

The thing is that you and DH have savings because you are careful. If you lived the same lifestyle as BiL, you wouldn’t have any leftover money. So BiL wants to have the nice big house, two cars, three kids and meals out, but then moans he can’t afford to live?
I would suggest to DH that he tells BiL he will help him to set a budget. Stop the meals out and weekends away for a start. But make it very clear that you live within your means and can’t be expected to subsidise him because he doesn’t.

How much is it? A quick Google and I’m offered a free trial but no details about how much it costs after that.

I'd be interested in the cost of YNAB too, please.

@Mummyongin @Emotionalsupportviper

Did you find the website? There's a Pricing link in the header menu.

Yes sorry, I didn’t express that well.
I fully agree.
I meant more like a token gift ex paying for a limited amount of time to maintain a hobby, while they sort their finances out to meet their budget, ex selling the cars etc, so not at all in a poor you we commiserate spirit, just we’re here to help you sort your budget out, we realise it can take a couple of months, but that’s all we’ll help with ?

Oh -thank you. I missed that.

What did your dh say @MsPorridge

I've had help from family in the past, in extremis.

This is not a crisis. It's a case of sponging.

BIL and his wife need to make a budget and categorise expenses as Essential and Non essential.

Essential means mortgage, utilities, food educational expenses. There's a case to be made for a pet/ pets. Presumably the children are attached to them. If they're driving a new car around, they need to trade it in for something less expensive, second hand.

Everything else is non essential, I'm afraid.

It's likely that BIL has racked up a massive credit card or payday loan debt or has borrowed from loan sharks. Or has gambled money.

Don't give or gift money because someone says they are broke. If you want to do something, pay a quarterly or annual bill as a birthday/christmas present, but do it directly yourself to the bill account.

My SIL professionally sponged off MIL for many many years. Claimed children were starving and she had no food, couldn't afford a dentist visit etc. If only MIL had been on social media and she might have seen the new motorbike parked up inside that SIL was riding around on, or the private name numberplates...

Families aye... 😬

go back with a list(from what youve seen and said on here) of what they could cut down,out of their lives to save what they are asking dh for.
look really smiley and enthusiastic of " look at what you could do for that money isnt that great. then youll be ok.isnt this a releif..!" smile smile smile some more.

I agree with this. Husband should ask for a budget from his brother and see if he can help them with their budgeting rather than give them money. £500 a month is bloody ridiculous tbh and it was sneaky of his brother and a little manipulative to be asking all the questions first.

I don’t think I’d refuse helping every now and then for the odd thing for the children as I can’t bare kids to go without…. But as one poster said ‘once it starts it never stops’

Do people actually think the BIL is thick and could sort out his own budgeting if he wanted to?

He's seeing sponging as an alternative to cutting back a wee bit on luxuries. The same luxuries that Op doesn't have.

Anyway I doubt Op will be back she hasn't been for a bit.