BIL wants us to pay for their lifestyle

[MsPorridge]

Sorry for my English: not a native speaker. BIL has asked my partner to give them money every month because they "can't cope" with all the expenses.

My partner went to visit his brother and his family last week. I wasn't there. Brother started asking partner how we are coping with cost of living and partner was just honest and said that energy bills are more expensive, etc. but because our expenses have always been so low, we are ok. Brother kept asking questions and partner did not think of any hidden intentions and answered and gave details about our financial situation (they were not very specific but it was just made clear that we were able to save around 2000 per month, except when there is some unexpected cost that month).

For some background: we have no children, no car, no pets, love cooking our own meals, no expensive hobby and maybe we are just very busy to spend money (we spend our time volunteering for different causes, doing exercise, love going on walks which is free...). This is just how we enjoy our life and the saving part just naturally happens. We also own our flat outright because we bought a small one (we could have afforded a much bigger place but not complaining, it was just what we felt we needed) and payed our mortgage quickly. Now we make around 3000 per month combined, so not really a high-income by any means, but it's fine for our situation. Most months we only spend like 1000 and the rest goes to savings/investments. It does help that I've never been interested in make-up or having lots of nice clothes, none of us drink alcohol, etc.

Going back to the problem: his brother started almost crying to him asking if we could give them around 500 per month during an indefinite amount of time to help with the expenses. My partner is a really soft person who always wants to help everyone. I've had a few arguments with him because of this. So he didn't say a straight no and from what he has told me he made it sound like he would talk with me about it and almost like a yes. Apparently the brother said things like "it wouldn't make any difference to you two, right? It seems you are really very comfortable with your life but we are really struggling at the moment". He also mentioned how my partner had to go back to stay with their mum and stayed rent-free for a year (this was 10 years ago and he still seems bitter and about it) as if somehow this justifies what he's asking.

They have 3 children, live in a much nicer and bigger house than us, have 2 expensive cars, 1 dog, 1 cat and 2 rabbits, I see pictures of them dinning out often or going away for the weekend with the whole family, always seem to have new fancy clothes, always redecorating the house, and children have a few expensive hobbies/after-school activities etc. Which I'm happy for them and don't feel any jealousy about but also don't see this is a desperate situation in which they are asking for money to put a meal on the table or pay the mortgage. They just need to adjust. My partner feels very sad for them and thinks it's not fair for the children not to be able to enjoy their life as usual. I feel very very angry that his brother feels entitled to my partner's money just because he has chosen to live a frugal life.

I am really disappointed with my partner for allowing this to happen. Please help. He has agreed with me that is totally unacceptable to ask but does not want to upset him.

Absolutely no way. Your BiL and his family are living beyond their means and need to adjust their lifestyle.

It would be entirely reasonable for dh to interrogate BIL and note income, outgoings, savings, pensions and debts

So you can compare the two accounts and see who should be helping whom.

What would your partner say if you wanted to send your folks £500 a month?

People tend to spend what they have so even if you did give him the 500 a month it soon won’t be enough. They need to learn within their means and cut back. Stick to your guns and absolutely do not give him a monthly handout. I would think it was different if they were living frugally and were struggling for food or heat and might give them something to help if they were doing everything possible to help themselves but no not in this case

Living beyond their means is not your problem. They need to cut back like everyone else

The very cheek of it!!!!

There is going to be no way not to upset this CF. Your partner is going to have to accept that.

Absolutely NO to giving them money. Offer budgeting advice instead.

I'd also be having words with your partner about sharing your private finances with others. This is not good.

I have a friend who found herself giving cash to needle mate who was living beyond their means..next time she was asked for cash she said she didn't have any but could get them some food on her card..or pay for alleged prescription on her card..this nate declined that help..she just wanted the cash. I might in your circumstances offer similar by offering to order food or pay something online for them but I guess they would want the cash. They are very cheeky to ask and put pressure on your husband.

It’s the manipulative sneaky way he got your DP to innocently fess up your financial details that galls me, making it harder for him to say no.

I really hope all these outraged voices on your behalf will galvanise your DP into action OP! If he’s not very good at confrontation or saying No maybe he should read them first?

You’re right, this is a want, not a need. And it’s disgusting that BIL pushed your DP to reveal your shared financial position, purely to abuse it. “Wouldn’t make much difference to you” to work for us to spend!

I’m sorry but your DP was very wrong to share such details with anyone.

Agree with PPs that DP should go back with a firm no, and offer to help them review their budget to reduce their outgoings. Do BIL and SIL both work full time?

Worth your DP making sure his mother’s money is not being siphoned off by BIL

Your DH should never have discussed personal monetary details with his brother and he needs to know that this mustn't happen again

Just to say I very much agree with this; a general "Oh we're doing okay" is one thing and actual details quite another, and in the kindest way your DH was perhaps a little foolish to spill the lot to someone like this

However if you refuse, do be prepared for them to claim sudden invented "emergencies" ... if they can't get the money one way it's very likely they'll try another

The OP posted that the BILs earnings are in excess of their own. So I don’t see that it makes any difference whether BIL makes an effort to cut back in or not. It’s still massively cheeky to ask family to finance a lifestyle which, by the sound of things has meant BIL living beyond his means, so he needs to cut back so that he is living within his means, not scrounge from family to maintain his lifestyle. He might want to take note of the OP’s budgeting skills though.

This is what galled me too. He poked around with casual questioning to see what they could afford to give him, before settling on a figure to ask for and making his move on them. I’ve read some CF posts on here, but this one takes the cake !!

Having extracted YOUR financial business from you partner and asking for money, they should be open to you looking over their finances.

My bet would be unlike your silly partner, his brother would very quickly tell him it's none of his business.

He's jealous of your prudence and his anger over him staying ten years ago with his mother tells you that he absolutely neither likes nor respects him.

He can't bear the financial security your prudence has brought you both, and is determined to be a drain on your finances.

Your partner needs protecting from himself and so do you from him, keeping your financial business, PRIVATE, is very basic adult behaviour.

I’m going to go against the grain here. OP I wonder (as you have said English is not your first language) are you (or your partner) from a culture where extended family do ‘share’ money a little bit more than perhaps is the norm in the UK?

If that’s the case (and if it’s not, actually but I’ll come to that) I could imagine it might cause a rift in the family that would be very hard to repair.

You have obviously been very frugal and done amazingly well with your finances and that’s really commendable. And I agree with all PP that BIL is being a mega CF. However, I wonder if, to maintain peace in the family you might consider helping for a limited period of time. Say: £500 a month for 6 months. BUT on the condition that you look at their finances and see where they can save and tell them that there will be no more money after this. That this money is to help while they adjust to a more frugal lifestyle (as most of the population is having to do!!) You are clearly the people to talk to as you’ve done so well with money so far!!

I just think that, whatever culture you’re from, these are the kind of issues that fracture families. By giving a little you can always say to them you helped - although you’d have to be really strong in not giving any more. Good luck OP

OP already covered that, Blanketwars ... upthread she said it's actually her who's from another culture and that DH/BIL etc. are all British

OP, stay strong. Like you said they don't actually need help, they need to budget. Something, from the sound of it, they've never done before.
Good on you for saving. Do not budge. Show some of the replies to your partner and if he doesn't agree it's time to split the finances.

I'm all for helping family out but only if they actually need help. Your BIL is a CF.

We had a family member who would do this "poor me," thing, oh poor me I can't afford to fix my car so I'll be unable to get to work and I'll lose my job, our home, etc etc. Eventually we found out, years later, they had successfully done it with several family members and had even gotten free college for one kid from a grandparent who is usually remarkably tight with gifts to grandkids. They never did lose the home, sold it for a nice profit and now take very nice vacations and their kids have no college debt. Unlike ours.

Say you are thinking about helping him out but are concerned and taking it seriously and want to see 4 to 6 months of their budgets, accounts and bank statements, to see how difficult a time he is having and how/where you can help. I'd be surprised if he'll share that information, because he knows you can go through the bank statements line by line and tot up where they are splurging

Good advice - especially this bit.

Bugger that!

"Thin end" and "wedge" come to mind.

Next month it would be something else, and the month after.

This isn't a life-saving operation with a massive waiting list so going private is the only option - this is funding a lifestyle they can no longer afford. If they can't afford it now, they won't be able to afford it for the near future.

If £1,000 will help them short-term, fine - but make it a legally enforceable loan - payments of £X starting on Ydate and finishing on Date, and charge interest to cover the solicitor's fee that you'll need to pay for the documentation.

He can't bear the financial security your prudence has brought you both, and is determined to be a drain on your finances
This^
Also agree with a pp who said their lifestyle depends on low interest rates, now that era is over and they find themselves over leveraged, and they think YOU will pick up the slack😂😂😂
I would deliberately misinterpret the requests for money as requests for help with budgeting and reply to every communication with a list of helpful money saving tips😆

Your bil is a cheeky, scruffy fucker.

I'd be livid.

And this would 100% impact how I viewed my dp tbh.

I can't believe they are even asking that of you tbh, how cheeky! I can absolutely understand someone on the breadline asking for help, however the lifestyle your BIL has doesn't sound like someone that's struggling. It sounds like they are living beyond their means. Wouldn't we all like to be gifted £500 a month to have more luxuries, it's ridiculous they expevt you to subsidise their lifestyle whiles you love a more frugal life.

I would say a definite no , but I would help them form a budgeting plan.
what a cf!!

It’s bound to fracture families if certain members are CF’s and want others to fund a lifestyle they have got used to and don’t want to give up. Whether it causes a rift or not, living beyond your means and expecting family members who earn less than you but are much more savvy with their money, to bail you out, is unacceptable in any circumstances. Are you seriously suggesting that this couple who earn less than BIL, prop up a lifestyle that is beyond their means, by donating money they have worked and saved for ? BIL needs to look at his finances and ask for help from family to set a budget that doesn't result in him living beyond his means. That’s not what is being suggested here - BIL sneakily questioned their finances to see what they could afford before making his request. They don’t need to give a little, or anything - they need to advise BIL that he’s a CF and they’re not going to contribute beyond giving financial advice.