BIL wants us to pay for their lifestyle

[MsPorridge]

Sorry for my English: not a native speaker. BIL has asked my partner to give them money every month because they "can't cope" with all the expenses.

My partner went to visit his brother and his family last week. I wasn't there. Brother started asking partner how we are coping with cost of living and partner was just honest and said that energy bills are more expensive, etc. but because our expenses have always been so low, we are ok. Brother kept asking questions and partner did not think of any hidden intentions and answered and gave details about our financial situation (they were not very specific but it was just made clear that we were able to save around 2000 per month, except when there is some unexpected cost that month).

For some background: we have no children, no car, no pets, love cooking our own meals, no expensive hobby and maybe we are just very busy to spend money (we spend our time volunteering for different causes, doing exercise, love going on walks which is free...). This is just how we enjoy our life and the saving part just naturally happens. We also own our flat outright because we bought a small one (we could have afforded a much bigger place but not complaining, it was just what we felt we needed) and payed our mortgage quickly. Now we make around 3000 per month combined, so not really a high-income by any means, but it's fine for our situation. Most months we only spend like 1000 and the rest goes to savings/investments. It does help that I've never been interested in make-up or having lots of nice clothes, none of us drink alcohol, etc.

Going back to the problem: his brother started almost crying to him asking if we could give them around 500 per month during an indefinite amount of time to help with the expenses. My partner is a really soft person who always wants to help everyone. I've had a few arguments with him because of this. So he didn't say a straight no and from what he has told me he made it sound like he would talk with me about it and almost like a yes. Apparently the brother said things like "it wouldn't make any difference to you two, right? It seems you are really very comfortable with your life but we are really struggling at the moment". He also mentioned how my partner had to go back to stay with their mum and stayed rent-free for a year (this was 10 years ago and he still seems bitter and about it) as if somehow this justifies what he's asking.

They have 3 children, live in a much nicer and bigger house than us, have 2 expensive cars, 1 dog, 1 cat and 2 rabbits, I see pictures of them dinning out often or going away for the weekend with the whole family, always seem to have new fancy clothes, always redecorating the house, and children have a few expensive hobbies/after-school activities etc. Which I'm happy for them and don't feel any jealousy about but also don't see this is a desperate situation in which they are asking for money to put a meal on the table or pay the mortgage. They just need to adjust. My partner feels very sad for them and thinks it's not fair for the children not to be able to enjoy their life as usual. I feel very very angry that his brother feels entitled to my partner's money just because he has chosen to live a frugal life.

I am really disappointed with my partner for allowing this to happen. Please help. He has agreed with me that is totally unacceptable to ask but does not want to upset him.

They are completely insane. Your partner shouldn't give them a penny. BIL needs a massive slap in the face with reality.

Noo way what CFs??? There’s an easy way for them to ‘get’ 500, cut back at least on one meal out a week. Dining out as a family of 5 is expensive and a luxury in hard times…
I don’t see why you have to justify the reasons to the BIL. Your partner needs to learn to stand up for himself

They need to budget their money better and adjust their lifestyle. Would you be okay with them spending your £500 per month, on eating out and towards a holiday?! I wouldn't! When would it ever end? It would creep up to 600, 700, then lets just call it 1000! You have to tell your partner that they're not poor, they just want extra money to enjoy privileges most people cannot afford. Don't give them anything.

Has your partner said to you that he wants to do this? I can understand if it was a once of situation but there isn't even a time frame on this. Also has BIL said that they will be cutting back on things i.e. fancy cars, extra activities for the kids (that aren't actually a necessity in todays current climate) or is this purely to continue to fund their lifestyle which would be a piss take if they aren't willing to actually help themselves. The cheek of some people.

Your post makes this sound like it’s a done deal. I’d talk to your husband and say it’s a firm no from you. If he’s said yes already, well that was stupid, there are two of you in this relationship. If he wants to help then separate out finances and he can fund his brother from his money. What’s being proposed is just not viable.

I have a slightly different take on this. My DH has one sister I wouldn't help because when she has money she spends it on luxuries and constantly has debt issues. He has another who is very prudent, and if they got themselves into a tight spot I'd know it was by circumstance, not because of bad money management.

Second sister I'd agree to giving (not lending) a decent chunk - say 5k - but I wouldn't agree to a monthly amount. The 5k would be to give them space and time to get support and work things out longer term. I'd give it so they didn't have the pressure of worrying about paying it back.

First sister I'd tell him to tell her to piss off.

If it were MY sibling, I'd expect him to support her as for his second sister.

This is all hypothetical because we actually don't have two beans to rub together! 😂

No! That validates BIL’s view that he deserves money from his much lower earning brother. And opens the door to him wanting more. BIL and his wife can afford clubs for the kids. If they need to cut down on spending they can do so easily. Downsize their cars, stop buying more clothes, have less lavish holidays and fewer weekends away. They don’t need handouts from people who earn less and don’t live lavishly.

Unlike other posters I don't think there's anything wrong in asking his family for help and he seems to have checked you could without struggling through his awkward questioning.

But , if you're going to ask for ongoing help then you do need to prepared to justify why you need it - how you've cut back, what payments you're struggling with specifically etc. And agree a way of paying it back when possible.

I wouldn't get worked up about this but treat it as a conversation to open up to discussion how you can help them out. It really only becomes cfery if they refuse any other way to help them, refuse to cut back on luxuries etc.

Honestly, I think you've overreacted a bit and it's a subject that should be further explored before jumping to assumptions of entitlement etc.

You probably need to talk to BIL together, to back each other up. All you need to say is that (1) it is quite absurd to suggest that someone on a lower income should subsidise someone on a higher income; (2) you have to budget yourselves for increased fuel bills and inflation so are unlikely to have money to spare in the foreseeable future; and (3) the only reason you have had anything to save in the past is because you live much more frugally than BIL, and there is absolutely no reason why he and his family should not follow your example.

I'm afraid the relationship is going to end up damaged, but really the damage was done when BIL raised this ridiculous suggestion in the first place.

How utterly cheeky of BIL. Not a chance.

Get your DH to request they write their monthly spending down and he can offer to help see where they can make changes and save more, saying this is how you are able to save the money you have. (I’m sure they’ll decline and leave it at that).

Or tell them to downsize their house. Or get a cheaper car.

If your DH does insist on helping, ensure you two start splitting your savings, so he can do with his what he likes, and you save yours and treat yourself to something nice. But he should of course just tell them sorry, besides helping them downsize/save he cannot help. He’d be an absolute mug to give them money so they can live their fancy lifestyle whilst you live frugally.

And tell him to absolutely NOT discuss finances with anyone but you again!

Rent free with your mum to sort yourself out is different to handing over a monthly allowance.

I would suggest your husband sits down with his brother and his bank accounts and help him to help himself. Work out where to make cuts/what needs to change etc.

The audacity of them to ask! Dinner out several time a month for a family of 4 or 5 is easily a few hundreds pounds. They can eat at home instead of begging you for a handout.

It's a really blindingly obvious no.

How your in-laws balance their incomings and outgoings is none of your business, but I'm afraid the second they start ask for hand-outs they forcibly make it your business. Very very easy to turn them down.

BIL, the reason things are ok for us is because we have not much in the way of property, have not had children, and now spend very little.

You've made different choices - good choices - and you will benefit from them in the future in terms of your eventual income, your property assets and having a family around you as you get older. Things might be tight for a while, and maybe it will feel like a step backwards, but overall the future is bright.

As for us, we have to our outgoings so that we are secure as we age (not much in the way of property to fall back on).

If you had already cut everything back to the bone and you were on a precipice we would of course try our utmost to help you avoid disaster - but can you see that we can't sacrifice our own security when it seems like you have so much more than we do already, and definitely will do in the future? I know it feels like a disaster at the moment but there will be ways to rearrange things/cut back and I can help look at it all with you.

Your DP needs to send a BIL a message

"Ms Porridge and I have discussed your request for financial aid in some depth. Comparing your income to your extravagant lifestyle we concur that the problem is that you spend far more than you can afford. That is your responsibility, not ours. So don't ask us for money again. "

This is such a good way to put it. I couldn´t have expressed it better! I will show this to my partner! Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for all the very useful replies, there have been many.

Others not so useful - the person who said we had a miserable life. Far from the truth!

I wouldn't agree to anything without going through the BIL's budget first and looking at how he can cut back. And if he's in debt, he needs to be upfront about it. Maybe he has taken on too much credit card debt or something and is in financial trouble. I wouldn't make any decisions without getting the full picture first. If he genuinely needs some help in the short term I would consider it but it needs to be made clear that the help is time limited and is dependent on him taking steps to make his lifestyle less expensive.

@WinterDeWinter Sorry, my message was for you!

I think the BIL was quite manipulative, getting your DH to admit to having disposable cash and targeting that. He got clarification that their was money available, which makes it harder to say no.

The OP's partner is weak and a bit dim and his brother knows that.

That's why he got all the information from him, set him up, and then went in for the kill.

He doesn't care about his brother or his life, he just sees him as a mug that can be used.

Like all cheeky fxxkers we read about on here.

The fact that he's frothing over the fact your husband moved into back his mothers for a year, still now; after 10 years passing, leads me to believe if the shoe was on the other foot and you actually needed financial help (not just have expensive tastes and not enough to fund it), they'd either tell you to manage your own finances better or they might lend you money while charging you interest.

Look after your own family first, those £500 a month add up, and means simple things like you can retire earlier than planned and/or purchase better quality things and experiences. They're not entitled to a share of your hard work just because you have it and because you're related, if they want to spend more money they need to work more, or change jobs, or just cut their cloth according to their means.

Your husband discussing your finances with them is not on as well.

That's a bit cheeky think they need to be cutting back on some non essentials not going begging family for money.

Then they can sell their nice house and cars instead of being bums.

If your BIl is still stewing over your brother getting rent free accommodation from his mother 10 years ago, maybe the answer is to go to his mother himself and ask her to help out to an equivalent extent? If your husband paid anything towards his accommodation I suspect the help involved will amount to little more than a couple of grand, but it that's what takes to get rid of his grievance then so be it.

@MsPorridge am I correcting in thinking you come from a culture where supporting family members is the norm?

Supporting and being a mug are two different things in whatever 'culture', oddly it's those with a 'culture' of bumming off families who find it OK. What happens when there are two different 'cultures' involved, whose prevails?