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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

BIL wants us to pay for their lifestyle

331 replies

MsPorridge · 13/02/2023 07:18

Sorry for my English: not a native speaker. BIL has asked my partner to give them money every month because they "can't cope" with all the expenses.

My partner went to visit his brother and his family last week. I wasn't there. Brother started asking partner how we are coping with cost of living and partner was just honest and said that energy bills are more expensive, etc. but because our expenses have always been so low, we are ok. Brother kept asking questions and partner did not think of any hidden intentions and answered and gave details about our financial situation (they were not very specific but it was just made clear that we were able to save around 2000 per month, except when there is some unexpected cost that month).

For some background: we have no children, no car, no pets, love cooking our own meals, no expensive hobby and maybe we are just very busy to spend money (we spend our time volunteering for different causes, doing exercise, love going on walks which is free...). This is just how we enjoy our life and the saving part just naturally happens. We also own our flat outright because we bought a small one (we could have afforded a much bigger place but not complaining, it was just what we felt we needed) and payed our mortgage quickly. Now we make around 3000 per month combined, so not really a high-income by any means, but it's fine for our situation. Most months we only spend like 1000 and the rest goes to savings/investments. It does help that I've never been interested in make-up or having lots of nice clothes, none of us drink alcohol, etc.

Going back to the problem: his brother started almost crying to him asking if we could give them around 500 per month during an indefinite amount of time to help with the expenses. My partner is a really soft person who always wants to help everyone. I've had a few arguments with him because of this. So he didn't say a straight no and from what he has told me he made it sound like he would talk with me about it and almost like a yes. Apparently the brother said things like "it wouldn't make any difference to you two, right? It seems you are really very comfortable with your life but we are really struggling at the moment". He also mentioned how my partner had to go back to stay with their mum and stayed rent-free for a year (this was 10 years ago and he still seems bitter and about it) as if somehow this justifies what he's asking.

They have 3 children, live in a much nicer and bigger house than us, have 2 expensive cars, 1 dog, 1 cat and 2 rabbits, I see pictures of them dinning out often or going away for the weekend with the whole family, always seem to have new fancy clothes, always redecorating the house, and children have a few expensive hobbies/after-school activities etc. Which I'm happy for them and don't feel any jealousy about but also don't see this is a desperate situation in which they are asking for money to put a meal on the table or pay the mortgage. They just need to adjust. My partner feels very sad for them and thinks it's not fair for the children not to be able to enjoy their life as usual. I feel very very angry that his brother feels entitled to my partner's money just because he has chosen to live a frugal life.

I am really disappointed with my partner for allowing this to happen. Please help. He has agreed with me that is totally unacceptable to ask but does not want to upset him.

OP posts:
Original poster
MsPorridge · 13/02/2023 12:35

Biker47 · 13/02/2023 12:28

The fact that he's frothing over the fact your husband moved into back his mothers for a year, still now; after 10 years passing, leads me to believe if the shoe was on the other foot and you actually needed financial help (not just have expensive tastes and not enough to fund it), they'd either tell you to manage your own finances better or they might lend you money while charging you interest.

Look after your own family first, those £500 a month add up, and means simple things like you can retire earlier than planned and/or purchase better quality things and experiences. They're not entitled to a share of your hard work just because you have it and because you're related, if they want to spend more money they need to work more, or change jobs, or just cut their cloth according to their means.

Your husband discussing your finances with them is not on as well.

I fear you are right in the fact that BIL would not help my partner if we were the ones who had problems (or just my partner alone). I agree with you and I think my partner is hopefully starting to see this.

OP posts:
JudgeJ · 13/02/2023 12:36

CohenTree · 13/02/2023 10:08

Ok, I thought families were supposed to help each other out, but apparently not!

All families need to live along the lines of Never a borrower nor a lender be, as well as Always live within your means, everyone would be far happier.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 13/02/2023 12:37

MsPorridge · 13/02/2023 11:08

Thanks for the replies. I don´t have time to reply to everything right now but want to clarify a few points.
I am not British but everyone else is. And we live in England. So this has nothing to do with my culture as some people thought. And yes, in my culture people ask for help from families and are expected to help (and guess what, there are lots of broken relationships in my family due to this reason. Either because somebody asked and didn´t help, or somebody helped but never got any help back/their money back, etc.)
We know for a fact that they earn more than us. I will not say what profession but the salaries for their jobs is public - we dont even need to ask, anyone can know. You can guess what I´m talking about.

Like somebody said we would not be able to afford their lifestyle with our salaries.

Also, regarding whether the money is to be returned. This was not expressed in any way, what was expressed was the idea that it "wouldnt be a big deal for us" and for how long, well, just until "things get better".

I always find the cultural expectations of being expected to support family members a bit strange and often skewed.

I’ve got a friend who’s Nigerian but went to school in England and has lived and worked here for years, not in high paying jobs and also unmarried but has had her siblings (one is a millionaire back in Nigeria and other is very wealthy also in Nigeria) ask her to send money home to her parents (her DF was a diplomat). She always felt she couldn’t say no and was obligated to do this.

Have heard of other people (not close friends) trapped into sending money home.

Their relatives assume that if you live in the West you have a great lavish lifestyle and lots of spare money and don’t consider in most western countries the cost of general living is/can be high.

If you’re able to send money home and have the means to do so then that’s a different story, but to place pressure on people to pay for extra costs just because it’s expected of them to do so, I find really unfair if they can’t afford to do so or situations make it hard for them to do so.

JudgeJ · 13/02/2023 12:38

Needmoresleep · 13/02/2023 11:01

Don't!

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If you do they will resent you. They should be grateful but they won't be, as they way they will rationalise it as them being entitled to the money. At the same time you will resent seeing them using the money on luxuries.

If need be make an excuse You already have commitments to your family? You are thinking of buying a larger property/making larger pension contributions etc.

If you do lend money (and it should involve a lump sum and a formal loan agreement) it should be for a specific purpose, and with a repayment date. (Though mentally you should write off the money, it should at least discourage them from coming back for more, and will give a chance to discuss their finances and scope for repayment.)

We had this. Supposedly very successful brother, large detached house, non working wife, and two privately educated daughters, suddenly phones me. Could we lend a large amount of money immediately as he had a tax payment deadline the next day which he could not meet, and the bank was refusing to lend him money. Failing to pay would put his career as a solicitor at risk. We paid, albeit with a loan agreement and eventually half was repaid. The resentment was huge and destroyed any relationship. His wife had always looked down on us as the poor relatives, and as clear social inferiors. I am not sure that she knows about the loan as her attitude has not changed. My brother certainly knows we know he is not the success he claims to be, and this is very difficult for him. (He is now head of compliance at quite a large firm. I hope he has learnt something from the experience, though I suspect one day we will get another call.)

In an odd way it has usefully taught the kids that being able to live frugally gives you freedom. Getting tied into a lifestyle you can't afford is a trap.

I am not sure that she knows about the loan as her attitude has not changed.

I would make damned sure she knew that her lifestyle is built on other people's money.

Thesharkradar · 13/02/2023 12:47

If my partner started giving our joint money to other people I would cut him loose and no longer be in a financial partnership with him
Seriously if he can't stop himself from giving money away I'd be separating my finances from his pretty damn quickly!

NannyOggsWhiskyStash · 13/02/2023 12:52

Your BIL is being rather grabby, but a one-off payment of 1k would be a nice gesture, as long as he is made aware that it is a one-off payment. Do not get into subsidising him regularly.

Godlovesall26 · 13/02/2023 12:58

If your partner gave your detailed finances, ask to see theirs, to help with where they could cut down (selling the expensive cars ? Meals out ?)
If they’re willing to cut on nothing at all (or don’t want to share finances), step completely back.
If they agree to cutting back on some important (to them) stuff, I’d offer to pay for a hobby for the kids for a set amount of time for example (and do it by direct payment).

Indefinite time is a huge issue. It’ll cause resentment if you don’t do it now, or it’ll cause resentment when you stop, there’s no winning situation unfortunately.

Id only make a small effort for a set amount of time if they really showed an effort to cut down on their finances (in which case they should be fine anyway)

And come up with something for your savings ex you’re saving for a larger home like theirs

In any case, it’s best to say no outright if they’re stubborn, as I said above this will end in resentment whatever you do

diddl · 13/02/2023 12:59

I'd be really pissed off with my partner for answering in anything other than general terms tbh.

If he considers helping then as a pp I'd consider leaving.

Would your partner even consider if he lived alone?

rookiemere · 13/02/2023 13:00

£1000 is not a gesture, it's a significant amount of money that OP and her DH have worked for and gives the message that if enough pressure is applied, the purse strings will be opened.

No the only people I feel for here are the DCs as their DPs haven't enough financial acumen to save on their behalf. DB and his DW can eat out less, holiday less often and easily cut a huge swathe of their costs.

MrBlobbyWasTrulyAwful · 13/02/2023 13:02

MissMarplesbag · 13/02/2023 07:41

Your partner should ask to see their monthly budget first to see what their expenses are. If they want his money then they shouldn’t refuse his request, I suspect they won’t send it over.

your partner should identify £500 worth of cost savings from their budget such as switching to cheaper deals, aldi/Lidl groceries, 1 car, meal out monthly & no new clothes etc. Then he should advise them each to get a 1 day job at a shop restaurant for extra income.

Then he should hand back the budget and say they’ve sorted themselves out so they don’t need his money. People like this won’t trim their budget, they just expect others to pick up the bill.

I totally agree, be supportive and offer to help budget. He’ll soon back off as he’s being a CF, and if not you are helping at no cost.

clairelouwho · 13/02/2023 13:10

YANBU.

The absolute cheek of it!

I’d be angry at your DH for telling him anything at all. Your finances are between you both.

The first thing BIL and SIL need to do is trim down their lifestyles to match their circumstances. No meals out. One car. No holidays. Less after school clubs or cheaper ones. No more new clothes unless absolutely necessary. Vinted is a thing.

The thing I’d be most worried about is that you give the £500 a month and all they do is adjust their lifestyle for an even bigger budget I.e. pick up more expensive commitments like cars, phones etc.

People like that don’t know how to budget and don’t care because someone else will always step in.

What if you commit to this and then something unexpected happens and your situation changes? I doubt your BIL will be forgiving if the support gets withdrawn.

I wouldn’t give a penny. Once you give once, the door is open and he knows he can come again. You both know he wouldn’t help you both out in similar terms so why should you help him?

GettingItOutThere · 13/02/2023 13:11

absolutely not. There are changes clearly the BIL can make before it gets to begging and borrowing.

your partner would be a mug to do this

also i hope as you are not married, you have your savings in YOUR name not joint?!!

HowcanIgetoutofthisalive · 13/02/2023 13:11

Your DH should never have discussed personal monetary details with his brother and he needs to know that this mustn't happen again. I'd be mad as hell if my in-laws knew our financial situation.

Just because you manage to save £2k pm doesn't mean that it can be handed out to people who can't manage or budget their own money each month. Bloody cheek!

As others have suggested, the best advice would be to say No, we can't help you out with money right now as we are saving for our futures (whatever that might be; a luxury holiday or future proofing yourselves by ensuring you have sufficient money for 'long term care' should either of you need it in later life).

Give them the number of their local Citizens Advice Bureau so they can sit with someone and work out their income/outgoings and budget their essentials so they know what luxuries/add-ons they can get rid of. It's not rocket science to know how to budget! Sounds like BiL has a champagne lifestyle on beer money and doesn't want to change it because he's too busy 'keeping up with the Jones''.

JudgeJ · 13/02/2023 13:20

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 13/02/2023 09:45

I know. It's galling.

Show quote history

Happened to us too, before we had children we worked abroad and had tax-free money, when it was assumed we would stump up for my brother's child I said No and it didn't go down well but as we didn't enjoy her conception..............

rothbury · 13/02/2023 13:22

YANBU Porridge.

You say your DH is afraid of upsetting BIL. Well he has to be more afraid of upsetting you!!!

It will cause problem after problem if he agrees to this. Absolutely correct to say no, sorry we can't help. Hope you get a bank loan etc...

MotherOfHouseplants · 13/02/2023 13:24

Based on your description of their lifestyle I would strongly suspect that it has been funded by cheap debt for some time, and that it is the debt that they now cannot afford. By all means signpost them to Stepchange or similar but no, do not subsidise them indiscriminately.

Bog · 13/02/2023 13:28

Of all the CF threads I've read...this one tops them all.
OP your BIL is a cheeky fucker, tell him to cut back on things because you and DP will not get any money back from this scrounger.

Thesharkradar · 13/02/2023 13:32

I would send them links to some websites that help you to budget your money that kind of thing but don't give them a penny, the reason they are leaning on your partner is they know he's a soft touch.

Stravaig · 13/02/2023 13:37

It's an absolute no from me. You and your partner already help your BIL by being a wonderful example of careful budgeting, living within your means, and prudent financial planning. Giving BIL money actually prevents him and his family from learning these necessary life lessons. They could be financially secure tomorrow just by cutting back their extravagant lifestyle. I have zero sympathy, and BIL's entitlement and attempt to manipulate your partner is abhorrent.

Iceysuperslide · 13/02/2023 13:43

You live in a very similar way to us, though we do have a grown up DS. What has happened to you is why I never ever give details of my income or savings to anyone. I know your DH spilt the beans as he was asked and I think the brother is exceptionally sly. He didn’t just ask for a loan he got all the info before. Do not assist them. Anything can happen at anytime. I had to retire far earlier than I planned as I developed a serious chronic health condition.

I have assisted two of my sisters but they did not ask and were a bit embarrassed but one had a DH who had been made redundant and the other was leaving her partner. The other point is my two sisters always had my back, always no meanness or anything awful. Plus they have always lived within their means, these were exceptional circumstances. I did exceptionally well career wise especially as we are from very humble beginnings and they were always just so proud of me. Both of them worked as carers in residential homes for decades and one in particular did about 15 years of night shifts and wrecked her health forever.

cottonwoolbrain · 13/02/2023 13:44

No way.

During lockdown we helped DS and BIL. Two kids, one cat, modest house.

She got made redundant, he developed cancer, the boiler broke and then the youngest got covid so BIL had no choice but to isolate in a hotel for 10 days as treatment had left him immunosuppressed. It was a bl*dy awful situation, I just remember being desperate to go and physically help but not being able to becuase of fcking lockdown. Of course we helped financially where we could - that's partly what savings are for - emergencies - ours or our wider family.

Say you did give in and paid them a monthly amount what happens when something like the above (or even one of the above) happens and they REALLY need help you can't give because you've already depleted your resources.

bonzaitree · 13/02/2023 13:50

MsPorridge · 13/02/2023 12:15

This is such a good way to put it. I couldn´t have expressed it better! I will show this to my partner! Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for all the very useful replies, there have been many.

Others not so useful - the person who said we had a miserable life. Far from the truth!

Your life sounds amazing OP!

FictionalCharacter · 13/02/2023 13:53

Do you trust him not to give in behind your back? There’s a thread in “similar threads” - “dh lending savings to BIL behind my back” - this is the mess you can end up in.

Genevieva · 13/02/2023 13:55

I think your best course of action is to close the door firmly but kindly on your BiL. Depending on your circumstances you might say that it seems he got the wrong end of the stick. Actually your DH was talking about the sum leftover after essential utilities and that this not only covers your regular expenditure, but also your attempts to save up for the future. That future may or may not include a bigger property / kids / a holiday of a lifetime / a course of study / a new career... You don't have to say what it actually is, but indicating that there has been a misunderstanding and that you have been prudent for a reason, but could easily increase your outgoings if you are less careful might shut him up. Especially if said in a firm but kind way with an indication that, while you are sympathetic about their predicament, you also face similar price rises that will eat into your plans. If you get push-back after this then you need to say that the amount they are asking for (£6000 a year after tax for an indefinitely period) is vast and unreasonable. You simply cannot give that commitment and they should not have asked.

Thesharkradar · 13/02/2023 13:57

It's completely indefensible he wants you, 2 frugal people to support his lavish and unsustainable lifestyle
I would laugh in his face and tell him to f* off
What a low down conniving grifter he is

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