Why the hell do some parents do this?

[Atethehalloweenchocs]

Went out for a nice celebration lunch. It was a step up from your regular restaurant, the kind of place where chef sounds out an amuse bouche, there is one menu for the day, the waiters put on white gloves to bring your plates and cutlery etc etc. But pretentious, but had heard good things and it was amazing food. And expensive, but a celebration so we splashed out. Near us was a group which a young couple with their two children. One was a babe in arms who cried - fair enough, babies cry and after a while of not being able to quiet him or her, dad went out and walked around outside. Much appreciated that he did that. However, the other child, a girl of about 5 or 6, was allowed to sing, at the top of her voice for over an hour. The same line over and over, which I finally worked out was 'I don't care' from Let It Go. For a fucking hour. I get it is hard to manage kids in public sometimes but you could see people looking from all over the restaurant. If we had been in the local pub I would not have thought twice. But in a place which is way out of most peoples usual daily reach, am I unreasonable to think those parents should have said something to this child and told her to stop?

For crying out loud - to all those who have made this about disability - kids like repetition - same stories over and over, same songs over and over. That is normal. She may have been ASD but she may equally well have not, and just trying to amuse herself. And her parents needed to help her balance that with disrupting others and they clearly did not give a shit. When did it get the norm that you can do disruptive or annoying behaviour until asked not to? Where is the personal fucking responsibility?

It is very clear there are many people who feel whatever their children do is ok. And that is fundamentally not ok. Not asking for perfect silence, children being seen not heard, not moving around - nothing like that. Just expect that if you have procreated yourself you will understand that part of your job as a parent is giving children the skills they need to function in the world and not expect it to revolve around them - and manners is part of this.

@Atethehalloweenchocs I think the discussion of inclusion of disabled people is separate to the incident with the noisy little girl. Most people were just responding to the idea that disabled people shouldn’t be in restaurants if they can’t hide their disability. In the case of your little girl it’s far more likely she’s upset by the new baby imo than has any SN

Agreed that they are two separate discussions but don’t think it’s fair that the discussion on disability has derailed the OP’s original thread!

@Mumsanetta its unfortunate but realistically if you read someone being overtly racist and for example suggesting that a particular race should stay out of posh restaurants you’d challenge it, because it’s the right thing to do. If they continue to do so you continue to challenge those ideas. It’s the same when someone does it to disabled people, and more so if you love someone who is disabled.
@Atethehalloweenchocs I’d have asked them if she could be quieter or asked the waiter. I’m sorry your posh celebration wasn’t how you wanted it to be, I hope the food was lovely and you got some joy.

Yessssssssss!

So true

As a foot note, I only responded about Special Needs for the sake of people writing with concern about Special Needs. From experience with parents of children with special needs, but I remember they all wanted their children to learn behaviour that made them calm and not annoying to others in social settings. I know some parents can be very sensitive.

I hope I made it clear that it makes no difference whether a child has special needs or not. As parents it is our responsibility to teach our children to behave in away that shows consideration for others and be aware when they are being noisy, irritating etc. For Heaven's sake, I have small rescued dogs 2 of which are nervous and more inclined to bark. But I never leave them barking in the garden for any longer than a few minutes (while I finish going to the loo).

This forum is about parents who don't show that consideration and don't teach it to their children.

And OP, Definitely, YANBU!

I am on your side. There’s some real bullshit on here from people who missed the point then tried to make it a disability thread. They underestimated you. You would have seen if the child had problems. You were there, the bullshitters weren’t.

OP said she was 5 or 6.

OP said the Parents did nothing.

OP said all in the dining room were adversely affected.

OP made it clear this is about the parents making no effort to do anything to create a comfortable environment for the other Diners. They did not even talk to the child about it, let alone try and divert her attention.

It is not about special needs or rare disability.

It's about negligent parents of a 5 year old, who, even if she does not have the ability to behave in a social situation such as this, does need to be taken out. But I doubt very much that she could not have been very pleasantly made to stop, if handled the right way. I taught for 20 years, my favourite age group Infants, then I studied Psychology, did research on Autism and worked in hospitals as a Neuro Psychologist. I met loads of different children and parents and they all were reasonable and cared about the comfort of others. The 'my nephew has echolalia' argument does not mean this child age 5-6 can sing loudly like that in that setting non stop for an hour and the parents not try to stop her. It's bananas to try and create excuses for the parents.

"were you working for SonRise or some sort of ABA behaviour modification program? 😱."

Sounds like it. All about appearing ' normal' to others and no thought for what the behaviour is communicating

Spikeyball, Were you asking me about where I worked or what kind of work I did?
If so, the things you mention mean nothing to me. Just to be polite I shall tell you some of my background. I have worked in the Institute of Psychiatry, attached to the Maudsley Hospital where I did research and learned to recognise signs of psychiatric disorders. This makes following some conversations on social media quite interesting.
I worked in other places after doing a post graduate course at the Institute of Neurology and I taught in three universities.

Regarding this Forum I think Atethehalloweenchocs explained a situation that’s very relevant and useful to discuss. She made it very clear what she wanted to address -should parents ask their children not to be noisy in public places such as the restaurant she described.

I think it’s abundantly reasonable to expect parents to ask their children to keep their noise level down when in the situation described in this discussion.

Many thanks Atethehalloweenchocs, it’s a good topic. I have noticed since I first became a mum that parents vary from those who let their brats smack bricks into your telly and hit your baby to those who apologise if their baby burps. I guess the world is like that and we probably need to be courageous and stick up for our rights in the face of the lousy parents and maybe give confidence to the shy ones. But I know if one tries to, for example, ask if someone could keep the noise down, it can still be upsetting just having to do this!
I hope you get a reason to celebrate again soon and your next meal at the lovely restaurant will be leisurely, relaxed, delicious, and peaceful.

So two 9 year olds got on with making innocent entertainment for themselves, without the aid of screens or snacks, while held up in a tunnel and adults have a problem with this?

This is why places like Brewers Fayre were invented, and why you don’t see couples with grown up children in there.

YANBU.

So two 9 year olds got on with making innocent entertainment for themselves, without the aid of screens or snacks, while held up in a tunnel and adults have a problem with this?

For 40 solid minutes? Yes, I'd have a problem with that.

Just proves what a nation of moaning, intolerant stress heads we’ve become then.

@PinkSyCo I agree - I thought the train story wasn't relevant to OPs situation. I mean unless you're in the quiet carriage, or possibly first class, you expect DCs to make some noise on a long trip - particularly one that's been delayed.

Not really comparable to OPs situation, where all the diners have paid a large amount of money to enjoy a sophisticated meal, and the unwritten assumption is there will be an atmosphere to match.

Oh look everyone, one of the parents of these 9 year olds has just turned up!

I don't understand why today's parents don't bring paper and pens, but that age we would have been playing hangman or boxes, they also would have coloured, done puzzles etc. No smartphone's then so you had to entertain them and went prepared. My children did go to many nice restaurants too, and they didn't disturb other guests singing

Exactly. I wouldn’t dream of taking a noisy child to a posh restaurant, but I wouldn’t dream of not letting my child chat/sing on a delayed train journey either.

Can i point out you need to talk to and entertain your children so they don't annoy other diners even at pizza express. It's perfectly possible but takes work, you can't just talk to your friends! Don't take your kids out unless you are willing to interact with them, my sil (much younger than me) brings a bag of quiet items to restaurants now, it's not just me!

Such a lazy and predictable retort, but I don’t take offence because I would not be ashamed if I were one of the parents. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@DoraSpenlow

That sums up my observations, parents seem to ignore their children in restaurants and more generally to be honest. Before the pocket time wasters we have now, we talked to our children, read books, did colouring- now whether you are on a bus, at a restaurant or even parks a tablet or phone is thrown at the child to keep them quiet so often or the child is ignored and left to their own devices whilst the parent plays on the phone arrgh'

Exactly! Sums it up!

You do realise reptile noises are a torture technique don't you? It's quite simple. Singing a variety of songs tolerable. Constant repetion not fair on others ad the parents need to parent.

😂

Some parents get really aggressive if you shush the kids or comment (so a lot of people won't say anything unfortunately)
I honestly think the aggression and "I'd tell you to fuck off!" Is because they hate being made aware of their failings.
Your singing brat isn't cute. Parent your child ffs.

Oh stop being so dramatic! My pet crocodile is as quiet as a mouse. My Boa constrictor too.