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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why the hell do some parents do this?

444 replies

Atethehalloweenchocs · 11/02/2023 19:39

Went out for a nice celebration lunch. It was a step up from your regular restaurant, the kind of place where chef sounds out an amuse bouche, there is one menu for the day, the waiters put on white gloves to bring your plates and cutlery etc etc. But pretentious, but had heard good things and it was amazing food. And expensive, but a celebration so we splashed out. Near us was a group which a young couple with their two children. One was a babe in arms who cried - fair enough, babies cry and after a while of not being able to quiet him or her, dad went out and walked around outside. Much appreciated that he did that. However, the other child, a girl of about 5 or 6, was allowed to sing, at the top of her voice for over an hour. The same line over and over, which I finally worked out was 'I don't care' from Let It Go. For a fucking hour. I get it is hard to manage kids in public sometimes but you could see people looking from all over the restaurant. If we had been in the local pub I would not have thought twice. But in a place which is way out of most peoples usual daily reach, am I unreasonable to think those parents should have said something to this child and told her to stop?

OP posts:
Atethehalloweenchocs · 13/02/2023 16:22

Yes, @Countdown2023 - parents are responsible - not teachers, not waiters and not me. There are too many people who are lazy or entitled, feel that as long as they are not bothered by something it should be ok including their little darlings disturbing others.
@Itisbetter - it was a small dining room, there was no where to be moved to. The waiters were visibly uncomfortable by the whole thing. As for mentioning it, do you think the parents really didn't know that was not ok? They just didnt give a crap about anyone else.

OP posts:
Spikeyball · 13/02/2023 16:25

"It’s almost like nobody has ever heard of echolalia or verbal tics or Tourette’s. I’m sure people genuinely can’t believe that disabled people just need to try a bit harder 😱"

They think my autistic son's repetitive vocal sounds and behaviour can be sorted out by "firm boundaries". They probably think I can sort out his not being able to talk by using "firm boundaries" too.

UWhatNow · 13/02/2023 16:33

Itisbetter · 13/02/2023 16:05

It’s almost like nobody has ever heard of echolalia or verbal tics or Tourette’s. I’m sure people genuinely can’t believe that disabled people just need to try a bit harder 😱

I’ve never heard of echolalia! Why do you assume everyone would know what that is? I’ve heard of tics and Tourette’s but we are NOT talking about that are we? We are talking about inconsiderate parents letting their precious darling children be deliberately annoying. We’ve all seen it. Nobody is getting at children with SEND.

Spikeyball · 13/02/2023 16:42

Actually a few people have said children's and adults with disabilities shouldn't be out and there is the 'they all have to learn /need firm boundaries' crew.

Itisbetter · 13/02/2023 17:07

@UWhatNow I think possibly most people have heard of it, but you at least are aware that some people make involuntary sounds and phrases so you understand they aren’t just lacking in boundaries/discipline? I was obviously responding to the ridiculous statements about disability, as I’m sure you are aware.

Wiluli · 13/02/2023 17:11

Itisbetter · 13/02/2023 12:37

But even if the child has a condition that causes this repetitious behaviour, her parents owe it to others not to ruin their special day by taking her where she will be a great problem to them. I simply don’t agree that I “owe it” to others to keep my child hidden in case his presence offends them. I have no idea where or what you were studying or when because your post shows little or no understanding of the law or disability. Total twattery.

Touca-te spit on ! It’s like disabled are something to be kept away so they don’t annoy the “ normal “ folk because they are not as important . People on this thread really need to have a look at themselves

SiennaT · 13/02/2023 19:27

If she was repetitively singing for an hour it sounds like a stim, which is something autistic children (and adults) do to regulate themselves when they’re overwhelmed and overstimulated.

Perhaps her singing was the only way to get through the meal. Perhaps stopping that would have resulted in a meltdown (not a tantrum but an autistic meltdown where the child is saying I’m so unregulated I can’t cope). Perhaps, as they were in a group they didn’t get to choose the restaurant but it was important that they attend? I can’t see why they’d put themselves in a situation that was clearly hard work for themselves, otherwise.

Not everything is always as it seems on the surface.

Ellyess · 13/02/2023 19:41

I think Itisbetter · Today, Mon., 15:06, makes a good point. I do sympathise with the OP and anyone else in this position though because having to ask for help is daunting and still can spoil what should be a very pleasant special occasion if you have to speak to someone about the thoughtless behaviour of another person. But it is the best and possibly the only way to deal with it I am sure. I would try the Manager if the Waiters can't get a decent result.

Interestingly, the OP was not asking what to do about it. She was explaining a scenario, of which she first set the scene very well, illustrating it wasn't an ordinary lunch place but "a celebration so we splashed out." and describing the kind of extra details that the restaurant produced such as the 'amuse bouche' and Waiters' white gloves. She also explained how a member of the party with the 'singing' girl did have an awareness of other restaurant users and took his baby out. But she wasn't asking how to deal with the irritation. Her point was, 'Why the hell do some parents do this?' and 'in a place which is way out of most peoples usual daily reach, am I unreasonable to think those parents should have said something to this child and told her to stop?'

So, A] Why do some parents do this?

And B] Is it unreasonable to expect parents to have said something to this child and told her to stop?

My thoughts are A] Because some people do not care about making other people's experience unhappy and have no thought for the effect their or their child's behaviour is having on others. In other words they are selfish.
B] Of course they should tell their child not to do a thing that is irritating to many* other people, especially in a restaurant.
OP said "you could see people looking from all over the restaurant."

I need to add, Itisbetter, your remark, "Forget the disability question because really people were only answering the twats who suggest that those with disabilities should stay away until they are miraculously able or go to “cheap places” because the other diners don’t matter as much." is offensive and as far as my comments go, it is wholly inaccurate.

At best you have been over sensitive about disabled children, but it is no excuse for twisting what people say and calling them vulgar names. I worked with so many disabled children who were tertiary referrals which means they were in need of help their local services were having trouble in providing. I was closely in contact with their wonderful parents too. I know the isolation and the terrible remarks that mostly the mums have to endure especially with the children whose appearance does not suggest they have any disability. Therefore when they come out with behaviour that is unexpected, people can be very judgemental and not at all understanding.

As far as I can remember, all the people I met used to try to keep a balance between letting their child join in with the things other children did and taking care they did not disrupt the atmosphere so that others could not enjoy whatever activity it was, in an appropriate way.

This topic clearly described this restaurant as being quite different from an every-day lunch experience; "a nice celebration lunch. It was a step up from your regular restaurant, the kind of place where chef sounds out an amuse bouche, there is one menu for the day," etc. Then she described the father taking out the crying baby. If the little girl were unable to stop her loud repetitive singing of the same line, one could hope that members of her family would take her out so that other people were not driven mad.

In fact the OP has told us the child did not seem to be Special Needs and she wrote here because she cannot understand why parents let children do this kind of thing. She wanted answers about the parents. If you want to say it's because they are totally unable to stop them, then say that. But leave out the vulgarity and insults you heap on
Respondents who are simply trying to suggest helpful ideas or are giving the benefit of their experiences. Most of all do not make up lies about them. It does not make your ideas more convincing to try and crush people by subjecting them to coarse language in an ad hominem attack.

I am genuinely concerned that you might be feeling very unhappy about your circumstances and are reading things through a perception of persecution or feeling downtrodden and hopeless when actually people care very much about you. If you have a disabled child, there should be a lot of support for you. It might not be enjoyable right now to take a disabled child to a posh restaurant where the child might get very bored and people might be looking at him in annoyance. But never give up hope. I have seen behavioural disabilities become moderated to such a degree that things have really become quite different they are so much better as the child has grown older. Also as far as a restaurant like this one is concerned, I did say I wouldn't have taken my children to the type of restaurant I think of as 'for adults' where the food is amazing and the service out of this world. They wouldn't have been able to appreciate it. I'd wait till they were much older. In fact I was taken to such a restaurant by my adult daughter and her husband the first time I went to such a place!

Itisbetter · 13/02/2023 20:36

Yes you’ve said much of that in previous posts @Ellyess. As I’ve said I’ve visited many fine dining establishments with my children and I don’t see either age or disability as a barrier regardless of your specific rules about who is welcome where or what is “normal”. It’s interesting that you feel the need to lace your posts with observations not only about my vulgarity (!) but ignorance and isolation and unhappiness. I really hope you didn’t have much contact with the parents of disabled children when you were working. If you did I wonder how they felt after hearing how to stay in the shadows and not bother the older more able people. I hope they went home and saw your message for what it is. Revolting.

Stewball01 · 14/02/2023 00:11

I'm 78, have 2 'middle aged' children who I love dearly but I'm not particularly maternal. I HATE children in the restaurant I happen to be eating in. Once a family came in with a very annoying girl. She came straight up to me and asked what I was eating and then proceeded to talk at the top of her voice. I had the waiters move me to the other side of the restaurant where I could still hear her. Completely spoils my meal when loud children are near me. Like I said. I'm not maternal.

Itisbetter · 14/02/2023 01:21

I feel the same about loud women or men talking at me. For me it’s not the age it’s the intrusion. Usually lecherous drunk business men who think we all enjoy them. Bleurgh. I don’t think it’s how maternal you are that’s the issue it’s the intrusion.

Allblackeverythingalways · 14/02/2023 09:40

I don't care if your kids is 'spirited' or your parenting is sub par.
If your family disrupts my meal, I'll ask to move, if that's not possible, I'll leave and tell the restaurant why.
I love well behaved kids, but screeching and singing at the dinner table is unacceptable.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 14/02/2023 09:42

Allblackeverythingalways · 14/02/2023 09:40

I don't care if your kids is 'spirited' or your parenting is sub par.
If your family disrupts my meal, I'll ask to move, if that's not possible, I'll leave and tell the restaurant why.
I love well behaved kids, but screeching and singing at the dinner table is unacceptable.

Are you god our saviour? If you ‘told’ me to move or leave I’d laugh and tell you to fuck off

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 14/02/2023 09:45

Wiluli · 13/02/2023 17:11

Touca-te spit on ! It’s like disabled are something to be kept away so they don’t annoy the “ normal “ folk because they are not as important . People on this thread really need to have a look at themselves

Totally agree.

It makes me so uncomfortable the thought of hiding people who are not neurotypical or able bodied because their existence offends someone who is so arrogant they think they have a right to walk into a restaurant and have every nanosecond of everything around them go their way. It’s a very regressive and ableist attitude and shows just how little exposure and experience people have with ND or disabled people.

Everanewbie · 14/02/2023 09:49

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 14/02/2023 09:42

Are you god our saviour? If you ‘told’ me to move or leave I’d laugh and tell you to fuck off

Hopefully the manager would tell you to leave before you were able to work your charm.

Allblackeverythingalways · 14/02/2023 09:52

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 14/02/2023 09:42

Are you god our saviour? If you ‘told’ me to move or leave I’d laugh and tell you to fuck off

Go back and read it again...
"I'll ask to move"
🙄

MatronicO6 · 14/02/2023 10:20

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 14/02/2023 09:45

Totally agree.

It makes me so uncomfortable the thought of hiding people who are not neurotypical or able bodied because their existence offends someone who is so arrogant they think they have a right to walk into a restaurant and have every nanosecond of everything around them go their way. It’s a very regressive and ableist attitude and shows just how little exposure and experience people have with ND or disabled people.

What about the ND children and adults who are distressed by loud disruptive noises? Auditory sensitivity is common in people with ASDD. Do we not have to consider their needs and accommodate them?

Sirzy · 14/02/2023 10:35

MatronicO6 · 14/02/2023 10:20

What about the ND children and adults who are distressed by loud disruptive noises? Auditory sensitivity is common in people with ASDD. Do we not have to consider their needs and accommodate them?

And this clash of needs is where things get complicated.

ds can’t cope with extra noises so we have to plan as best as possible to avoid things where problem noises will be. For him he can’t cope with singing at all (to the point I can’t listen to anything but 5 live in the car incase I sing along without realising!) so someone nearby singing the same line over and over would mean we had to leave before he ended up in meltdown.

balancing needs isn’t a black and white situation because needs vary so much.

Spikeyball · 14/02/2023 10:35

"What about the ND children and adults who are distressed by loud disruptive noises? Auditory sensitivity is common in people with ASDD. Do we not have to consider their needs and accommodate them?"

A lot of children and adults with severe ASD including my son have both difficulties. They can sometimes be loud but find the noise of others distressing. As long as the carer is trying to keep the noise down I wouldn't expect someone with a disability to leave because of the noise they make. The biggest issue is crying babies and that is far more likely to be the reason we have to leave due to noise.

MatronicO6 · 14/02/2023 10:47

Sirzy · 14/02/2023 10:35

And this clash of needs is where things get complicated.

ds can’t cope with extra noises so we have to plan as best as possible to avoid things where problem noises will be. For him he can’t cope with singing at all (to the point I can’t listen to anything but 5 live in the car incase I sing along without realising!) so someone nearby singing the same line over and over would mean we had to leave before he ended up in meltdown.

balancing needs isn’t a black and white situation because needs vary so much.

I completely agree with you. I was trying to make the point that it is not clear and it is a grey area. There are so many different needs that we cannot meet everyone's at all times.

But I do think it is fair for parents of neuro typical children to be aware of the spaces thet are in and reach them to be respectful of them.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 14/02/2023 12:42

MatronicO6 · 14/02/2023 10:20

What about the ND children and adults who are distressed by loud disruptive noises? Auditory sensitivity is common in people with ASDD. Do we not have to consider their needs and accommodate them?

I have never said it’s ok to watch loud iPads without headphones so not sure why you’re asking me?

MatronicO6 · 14/02/2023 13:10

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 14/02/2023 12:42

I have never said it’s ok to watch loud iPads without headphones so not sure why you’re asking me?

I didn't mention loud ipads in my comment.

Ellyess · 14/02/2023 15:00

Itisbetter
You said:
'I really hope you didn’t have much contact with the parents of disabled children when you were working. If you did I wonder how they felt after hearing how to stay in the shadows and not bother the older more able people. I hope they went home and saw your message for what it is. Revolting.'

You are a liar and abusive.
That is not what I said. I have never said anything so stupid and you are deliberately lying to arouse hatred. This is extremely abusive and I shall not tolerate your attacks any more.
FYI all the families I had the pleasure to meet followed our program or that of their local team if they lived too far away and all of them made wonderful progress. The children all had difficult behaviour problems at the start, and all of them progressed so well that they were able to happily follow the social norms of different situations such as eating out, going to Church, to the theatre, and so on.

You need to keep to the point of this forum:

The child in this case we are told is 5-6 years old and does not appear SEN.

I said that any young child who could not be stopped from making a constant noise so loud it disturbed the whole restaurant should be taken outside to stop the child from disturbing other people, and to distract the child, just as the father who took the crying baby outside. Obviously the parents should ask the child to quiet down first.

That is perfectly reasonable and is supported by the voting on this forum where 92% feel 'those parents should have said something to this child and told her to stop?'

Noise pollution is a real disturbance and people expect to enjoy a meal without an irritating noise going on throughout it when they come to this type of restaurant. If a child of 5-6 years old cannot keep quiet enough not to disturb people in all the restaurant, [OP said people all over the room were looking at her] I think she should not be there. Maybe she is too young to be in such a restaurant. If a disabled adult does not understand the required noise levels then special arrangements need to be made for them to enjoy eating there or other customers paying the high prices will be driven away. The constant repetition of one line of a song in a loud volume constitutes noise pollution nuisance level noise. Such things have been used as torture throughout time.

Now, Itisbetter, Keep to the facts. Stop making up lies and stop writing offensive imaginings about me. Stop you trolling abuse.

UWhatNow · 14/02/2023 15:46

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 14/02/2023 09:42

Are you god our saviour? If you ‘told’ me to move or leave I’d laugh and tell you to fuck off

Wow how depressing... We stand no chance then as a society if people like you don’t give a shiny shit about disturbing others and are happy to tell them to fuck off. What kind of utopian world are you promoting there with those values?

Jeez you really need to check yourself.

Itisbetter · 14/02/2023 16:04

FYI all the families I had the pleasure to meet followed our program or that of their local team if they lived too far away and all of them made wonderful progress. The children all had difficult behaviour problems at the start, and all of them progressed so well that they were able to happily follow the social norms of different situations such as eating out, going to Church, to the theatre, and so on. were you working for SonRise or some sort of ABA behaviour modification program? 😱. Is “progress”passing for normal? 100% success rate at stuffing autistic children into nt moulds, yikes.

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