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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Childcare excluded my child

274 replies

BrokenAndAfraid · 11/02/2023 15:58

My child aged 7 sneaked a mobile phone in to school and from there into childcare. Of course I accept she was naughty and shouldn't have done it.
the childcare facility has now excluded my child - as she took a photo of another child - whist under there care.
They have said she had created a safeguarding issue.
She was caught by the staff and asked not to play on the phone, but they did not confiscate it. They handed it back to her. Older children have phones so this confused her. The phone has no sim and access to internet - it's used to play games.
AIBU to expect them to take responsibility for allowing a child to play with a phone? And then to exclude her with no prior warning?

OP posts:
devonianpricklypear · 11/02/2023 17:12

absolutely ridiculous, do they not realise it's 2023? if anything, access to a mobile phone is a good thing. stick to your guns

musicalgymball · 11/02/2023 17:12

Seems extreme to exclude a kid just for taking a single photo. Unless they had other behavioural issues I don't see why a photo warrants exclusion. Delete the photo when the parent arrives so the childcare provider can see that the photo has been deleted from the phone and the recently deleted folder has also been deleted, then let the parents discipline the child at home, maybe remove some privileges at childcare as a punishment for the child and move on.

Were there any other reasons for exclusion?

@BrokenAndAfraid what are you going to do for childcare now?

MavisMcMinty · 11/02/2023 17:14

Ah well, lesson learnt. Your child won’t “sneak” a phone out of the house again, and you’ll make sure she isn’t able to, I’m sure.

musicalgymball · 11/02/2023 17:15

Access to a mobile phone for a 7 year old is not unreasonable. It is a safety issue. I would want my kid to have a phone so that they could contact me or call 999 in an emergency and so that I can know their whereabouts.

Wrongsideofpennines · 11/02/2023 17:15

What is their behaviour policy? It does seem harsh to go from one incident to being excluded. Is it a permanent exclusion or just a week or what?

Most 7 year olds I don't think would understand what a safeguarding issue is or the implications of taking a photo of another child. The other child may well have told them to take a photo of them. Your post suggests older children there have phones with them so I can see why some children would be confused by that.

I think if the rules are so strict about phones then the staff should have confiscated it. What if it was something else like a lighter or a pack of paracetamol or something - they wouldn't just return it to them. If they had such serious safeguarding concerns then they should have taken it off them for the duration of the session and returned it to the adult doing pick up.

DuplicateUserName · 11/02/2023 17:18

This OP has form for starting threads and not coming back to them, so I'm not sure any of the questions will get answered.

montessorinanny · 11/02/2023 17:19

As a childcare provider a child using a mobile phone, no matter their age, to take a photo of another child in the setting is a serious safeguarding issue. This photo could be used for anything once outside the setting. I am sure it was explained to the child that they were not allowed to use the phone while at the setting. Your child is 7 and old enough to understand what is right and wrong. if they were asked to put it away then that is what should have happened. It also raises data protection issues. The childcare provider probably has had no choice but to exclude as it is possible that the other child's parents have raised a complaint and it will have to be investigated. We all have policies and procedures we must follow especially when it comes to safeguarding and data protection.

Survey99 · 11/02/2023 17:19

Testina · 11/02/2023 16:35

I’m going to make a massive leap here…
and say the 7yo snuck her phone to the childminder’s because the childminder is shit (letting other older kids just sit on their phones) and she’s been bored rigid.
Just a theory!

Or the 7 year old is so reliant on screens for entertainment they haven't learned at home how to spend any of their free time, where toys, crafts, books etc are all available to them, off them.
Just a theory...

Geeds · 11/02/2023 17:20

Safeguarding is the responsibility of adults, not children. She shouldn’t be punished for that.
If she’s deliberately been nasty with the phone/ignored instructions repeatedly etc then they are right to exclude her but otherwise they’re being over the top.

2bazookas · 11/02/2023 17:33

Assuming this was just an innocent photo

Why assume that, when the carers decided there was a safeguarding issue
warranting instant exclusion.

. OP said the phone has no SIM so it's not as if the photo has been shared online

No SIM is no protection at all. The image could later have been screen-shotted from another phone, for other use.

DelphiniumBlue · 11/02/2023 17:42

It's childcare, not school, so they don't have to have her. She's shown herself to be difficult, and has not only sneaked in a phone, but has continued to use it despite being told not to.
I agree that ideally they should have taken the phone off her ( and then put it..where?) but they probably don't want the responsibility, either of looking after someone else's tech and risking it getting lost/broken/stolen, or of making sure she doesn't continue to cause problems.
Is it usual for her to disobey clear instructions? I'm guessing it's more trouble than it's worth for them to keep her there.

GoodChat · 11/02/2023 17:43

2bazookas · 11/02/2023 17:33

Assuming this was just an innocent photo

Why assume that, when the carers decided there was a safeguarding issue
warranting instant exclusion.

. OP said the phone has no SIM so it's not as if the photo has been shared online

No SIM is no protection at all. The image could later have been screen-shotted from another phone, for other use.

Or connected to wifi or sent via Bluetooth or a sim put in the phone later

nofluffsgiven · 11/02/2023 17:51

I'm surprised by some of the responses, she is only 7 years old for goodness sake! I doubt it would have been malicious, she probably just wanted to take photos of her friends. I agree with you OP they should have confiscated the phone. You weren't aware of what was going on so how could you have stopped it? I mean admittedly you should have checked she didn't have the phone but it's easily done. My kids have taken things to school without permission without my knowledge before and I've had messages from parents saying he's given things away or swapped things and they were checking it was ok. It's easily done. At least now you know she's done this before you can be more vigilant with checking, although that unfortunately won't help you now.

Rufus27 · 11/02/2023 17:51

Speaking as the adoptive parent of a vulnerable child, I’d be fuming if another child took a photo of my child in school or related child care. I’ve gone out of my way to ensure there are no photos of them on social media and school has gone out of their way to support us with this. Your daughter’s actions could have put my child - and others in similar circumstances- at risk.

ThisIsBrandNewInformation · 11/02/2023 17:56

Whose phone was it?

Anyway, I think the OP has done a runner.

nofluffsgiven · 11/02/2023 17:57

Rufus27 · 11/02/2023 17:51

Speaking as the adoptive parent of a vulnerable child, I’d be fuming if another child took a photo of my child in school or related child care. I’ve gone out of my way to ensure there are no photos of them on social media and school has gone out of their way to support us with this. Your daughter’s actions could have put my child - and others in similar circumstances- at risk.

It's unfortunate but she's only a child, she's too young to know about safeguarding. I understand that the nursery has to do what they thought they needed to do, but really they should take some of the responsibility because they had chance to confiscate it but didn't. One day your kid might do something against the rules and have people judging them and I'm sure you will expect people to have forgiveness and empathy 🙂

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 11/02/2023 18:14

If my admittedly bright 4.5 year old nephew could understand no and the reasons behind it then your 7 year old DD definitely could/should understand the same.

Agree that your parenting is lacking here and your child needs to hear the no word more.

Cassy92 · 11/02/2023 18:14

Feels a bit OTT of them in my opinion. I voted YANBU but seems I'm in the minority.

Sure your kid should be in trouble for it, no disputing that, but exclusion?

How has a 7yr old created a safeguarding issue? I assume the photo was deleted and not shared on line?

Rufus27 · 11/02/2023 18:14

nofluffsgiven · 11/02/2023 17:57

It's unfortunate but she's only a child, she's too young to know about safeguarding. I understand that the nursery has to do what they thought they needed to do, but really they should take some of the responsibility because they had chance to confiscate it but didn't. One day your kid might do something against the rules and have people judging them and I'm sure you will expect people to have forgiveness and empathy 🙂

Show quote history

I’m afraid if their action led to my children being identified and tracked down by their dangerous birth family (who believe they were stolen and want to find them), I’d have zero empathy for anyone but my innocent children. I understand that children make mistakes - it’s the OP’s lack of understanding about the severity of what’s happened that frustrates me.

playyourcardswrite · 11/02/2023 18:29

musicalgymball · 11/02/2023 17:15

Access to a mobile phone for a 7 year old is not unreasonable. It is a safety issue. I would want my kid to have a phone so that they could contact me or call 999 in an emergency and so that I can know their whereabouts.

Why would your 7yo be anywhere without an adult who could do that?

nofluffsgiven · 11/02/2023 18:30

@Rufus27 that would be unfortunate, but it can't be helped. A child that young doesn't really understand deep consequences like that.

Nowhereelsetogo90 · 11/02/2023 18:33

It’s 100% a safeguarding issue. If the child in the photo is looked after with no contact from birth family, or is in a DV situation and under a restraining order, for example, your child could have ruined their life should the photo accidentally become public. The childcare provider doesn’t know the phone has no SIM etc. Why on Earth does your 7 year old have a phone in the first place?! Sorry but this one isn’t on the childcare provider.

Zosime · 11/02/2023 18:45

A 7-year-old cannot reasonably be expected to understand why taking a photo is a safeguarding issue.

She doesn't need to understand. She just needs to stop playing on the phone and put it away when she's told to do so.

Young children are told to do/not do lots of things they can't understand the reason for - because they are children. They still have to do them.

Intrepidescape · 11/02/2023 18:46

Nimbostratus100 · 11/02/2023 16:11

that is very poor behaviour in a 7 year old, planned, and malicious sounding. Taking secret photos of another child? It would certainly raise a huge flag in most settings.

Absolutely

nofluffsgiven · 11/02/2023 18:55

Zosime · 11/02/2023 18:45

A 7-year-old cannot reasonably be expected to understand why taking a photo is a safeguarding issue.

She doesn't need to understand. She just needs to stop playing on the phone and put it away when she's told to do so.

Young children are told to do/not do lots of things they can't understand the reason for - because they are children. They still have to do them.

So your kids have never, ever, done something when you told them not to do something? Really? Because if that's the case I'm calling serious BS 🤣

The thing with kids is some of them make mistakes once or twice and learn from it and others take a few more times. It doesn't make them bad kids, it's just all kids learn from mistakes at different rates. Disobeying parents is a normal part of child development and childhood. The mum should have been a bit more vigilant and the care provider should have confiscated the damn phone. You can't trust a 7 year old to reliably do as their told when there were such serious safeguarding issues at stake. The care provider messed up here by letting her keep the phone. They were the adults responsible for the child at the time and they messed up and trying to scapegoat the kid

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