To be horrified by these ‘baby boxes’?

[TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl]

This just came up on my newsfeed and I’m absolutely horrified by the whole concept of women abandoning their newborns in the US:

www.newschannel10.com/2023/02/10/newborn-surrendered-baby-box-installed-less-than-3-months-ago/?fbclid=IwAR1qz7BbrIeF390b6YXl4mAscw82cTvt-Bzwnp_LMaZMMCjBcpltEZGHav0#ldzrvrvoa7ecauugx04

Im NOT having a go at these women, and this is supposedly to prevent newborns being abandoned in unsafe places.

But surely the answer isn’t “Hey brand new mum with raging hormones, probably depression, who is tired, stressed and not thinking straight - put your baby here for a nice new family” - it should be about supporting mums with PND, improving practical support, healthcare and rights of new mothers and reproductive rights. Not just “Oh well you don’t feel OK today so probably best you don’t be a mum, here’s a little box to pop your baby in”.

My spidey senses were tingling so when I did a bit of further research, the woman who started these is, of course, fiercely anti abortion. So that’s what it’s all about. it’s about not allowing women their reproductive rights but making them go through a birth they don’t want, have the trauma of having a baby they don’t want but it’s OK, and the heartache of giving them away - no harm done ey 😡

You're totally missing the point of them.

This is all the more reason to encourage these women to come forward to services.

If they are told to leave their baby in a box anonymously then these vulnerable women receive no help at all to exit their situations and there are no consequences for their abusers.

No is told to leave their baby in a box.

Regardless of support available, lots of people won’t engage. It’s simply impossible to ensure everyone engages with every service they need. Even if they are available.

These boxes should (and are) a last resort. And should always remain that way.

This is all the more reason to encourage these women to come forward to services.

Some people never will. You might be a
Drugs dependent for example but if you don't want to quit, why would you engage? Or if you
Want to stay with a particular partner and know you'll be encouraged to leave them.

Social services should step in to remove the children in those cases, if the parents refuse support.

With respect, 'support' can feel absolutely claustrophobic to a woman with pnd. I'm middle class, surrounded by loving, helpful people and I have the resources to pay for help. I had 'support' coming out of my ears when DS was a newborn. But I wanted to die, because pnd is an illness which makes your head feel broken.

I utterly loathed breast feeding. Hated, hated, hated it. I had midwives, health visitors, a private specialist and every woman in my extended family on hand to provide encouragement, help and support. But I still fucking hated it and wanted to die.

Of course mothers should be helped and supported, but it doesn't solve mental illness. I only felt better when I finally asked for mental health support and got anti depressants.

Being nice to mums doesn't eliminate pnd, and the 'support' juggernaut makes many of us feel worse.

They do.
Quite a number of children removed at birth.

The issue here is. How do you think social services will know about someone who is keeping low profile? People can slip the net if they simply don't engage from beginning. If no one knows you are pregnant, no one can do anything.

I don't understand what is your problem with one safe option for those flying under radar?

Even if those boxes save only a small number of babies, then they're worth having.

@Applesandcarrots if such a woman has therefore gone her entire pregnancy without a single health check and given birth without medical assistance then she is in dire need of face to face medical attention at that moment. An anonymous baby drop is not a safe option for such a woman.

And then we need to interrogate why a woman would do that. I don't know what pre and postnatal care looks like in the US if you don't have insurance. How easy would it be to access that if you are perhaps illiterate, living a chaotic lifestyle , an illegal immigrant , do not speak English, are desperately poor, without transport, a teenager, without access to a phone or the internet, or some combination of the above?

As a first step perhaps instead of a box they could put in a community health centre with free contraception, abortion, and pre and postnatal care, early parenting support, drug harm reduction etc etc from a non judgemental, non religious midwife , doctor and child health nurse?

I've changed my mind as a result of this thread. I think we should have all the options, including abortion, healthcare and the baby boxes.

Look, you can be going on about how they need support but matter of the fact is some refuse to engage with support no matter what.

Hence why there are babies found in parks, boxes and toilets even in countries with that support.

I come from country with free contraception and we still have that boxes. Rarely used, but still.

Some. Women. Need. Other. Options.
Even if some on here don't find them palatable.

And I honestly keep getting feeling that no matter how many times would the woman say "I don't want it" she would still be getting speil about how she must since she birthed it etc and that she just needs to push through with the support....

It's giving vibes about abortion arguments tbh now

So the end goal is the same, the child ends up away from the mother/parent, but with a little bit of added shame for the mother/parent when removal is forced rather than an option she is afforded

Do we also stand around in a circle and chant shame?

My old neighbour was a foster mother. She had one foster child, 14 and pregnant, when baby was born the agreement was the foster mother looked after baby while mother was at school but the rest of the time baby was the mothers responsibility.

The girl repeatedly told social worker she didn't want the baby, they did everything to persuade her to keep him. Told foster mother she couldn't stop her going out and she would have to look after the baby. Girl got to 16, left school, left foster home and refused to take baby with her. Baby was now about 18 months I think. He was adopted but could have been with the adoptive parents virtually from birth if only someone had listened.

Yet another one of these stories in the UK this week - an hour old baby dumped in a plastic bag at a junction.
Abhorrent. We should have baby boxes here.

@cambridgecoral Absolutely. Running costs are very low and saving lives- priceless.

I haven’t rtft but this sounds about where I am without reading it

Why is it any worse than a baby found in a carrier bag in the street? Authorities will be alerted as soon as a baby is put there. Often no amount of support will make a difference, it’s about ensuring babies are not found dead like could have happened to that poor baby Elsa found a few days ago

Better than leaving them on the street in subzero temperatures.hoping someone finds them quickly.

There are /European/ countries, where maternity laws are better than in the US or in the UK, maternity leave is way longer then in the UK, health care is free and accessible better than in the UK, abortions are accessible yet girls and women still have the option of a babybox and it does get used.

I don't see how these could somehow mean women are less likely or able to have an abortion, that seems pretty dumb. I imagine the woman in question cares about babies and that's why she developed this idea - she doesn't want to see babies abandoned in trash cans etc. How that means she wouldn't support women getting help instead I do not know.

I am not sure they are actually helpful if you crunch the numbers. They seem to pop up when there has been a horrible case of newborn abandonment in the news, so I think can be a bit of a reactionary response. But some may feel that even if they only help one or two babies in a year, they are worthwhile.

And if nobody knows about the struggling woman so she abandons the baby? Which is often the case, as a lot of babies are abandoned pretty soon after birth. There will always be circumstances where babies are abandoned. Would you rather they're dumped in a bin somewhere?

What do you suggest these children having children should do then?

But if a woman is of a mind to abandon her baby, she's going to do it anyway. It's not like the box would sway her decision either way.
The boxes will at least give the vulnerable newborn a fighting chance.

A lot of women in America are against abortion and if they fall.pregnaant feel they have no option but to go through the prgnancy , knowing they don't want to keep the baby for whatever reason , too many children, can't afford, abusive relationship, rape. These boxes allow a mum to know that their baby is cared for immediately , and never at risk. The fact there are papers explaining what happens/what to do if they change their mind is very reassuring.
Would we rather the situation were different, ofcourse, but they fulfil a need and i've always thought they were a great idea. Much better than a baby being left somewhere that puts them at risk.

Just because the person who pioneered the idea is pro life doesn't make them a bad idea or the assumed suggested alternative to keeping a baby you don't want.

Sometimes, for a myriad of reasons you've not considered, vulnerable women abandon their babies. It's better to know they can do so, some place where a baby will be safe and guaranteed to be discovered. You know, unlike a random doorstep or by the side of a pavement...