To be horrified by these ‘baby boxes’?

[TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl]

This just came up on my newsfeed and I’m absolutely horrified by the whole concept of women abandoning their newborns in the US:

www.newschannel10.com/2023/02/10/newborn-surrendered-baby-box-installed-less-than-3-months-ago/?fbclid=IwAR1qz7BbrIeF390b6YXl4mAscw82cTvt-Bzwnp_LMaZMMCjBcpltEZGHav0#ldzrvrvoa7ecauugx04

Im NOT having a go at these women, and this is supposedly to prevent newborns being abandoned in unsafe places.

But surely the answer isn’t “Hey brand new mum with raging hormones, probably depression, who is tired, stressed and not thinking straight - put your baby here for a nice new family” - it should be about supporting mums with PND, improving practical support, healthcare and rights of new mothers and reproductive rights. Not just “Oh well you don’t feel OK today so probably best you don’t be a mum, here’s a little box to pop your baby in”.

My spidey senses were tingling so when I did a bit of further research, the woman who started these is, of course, fiercely anti abortion. So that’s what it’s all about. it’s about not allowing women their reproductive rights but making them go through a birth they don’t want, have the trauma of having a baby they don’t want but it’s OK, and the heartache of giving them away - no harm done ey 😡

These boxes were available before the recent changes in the law in some states. I am not surprised that the person behind the boxes is pro life. Being pro life encompasses much more than being anti abortion. They have these boxes in California where abortions are available. We dont have them and babies are still abandoned here despite the availability of terminations. Your argument does not stand up to examination.

Being pro life encompasses much more than being anti abortion.

You're right, it's also about being anti-woman.

I personally think it’s wonderful! women who are that desperate will be putting them anyway. The number of drug addicts and desperate women who literally can’t feed them in the USA is pretty shocking. I don’t think people in the UK realise how much worse it can be.

Thank you @Ifrozethehoumous this is the reality

The best support for a pregnant woman/ woman who just had a baby is a supportive and present partner as well as supportive and present extended family. The western world has continued to sell individualism and single parenting and so women and ultimately babies will continue to suffer.

To be truely pro life is to want everyones life to be better. However there are many bigots around. I agree things are not better in the USA than here and it is sad we are heading in a similar direction. However these boxes are about saving babies lives and offering support to their mothers.

Good thoughts but this is the USA
the country that only gives TWO weeks Maternity leave !!!
so i doubt they will provide the service you suggest ..
they have no NHS
no Midwives
no health visitors
no sure stray centre’s
no baby clinics
SAD

Agree, @Applesandcarrots

And for many women, abortion is not an option whether legal or not. It's not something they could countenance. Pro choice means respecting the choice of women who choose life.

As I mentioned, the baby boxes are available in liberal states and have been for decades.

Exactly. Being pro choice is exactly that.

They are available in countries with VERY long maternity and parental leaves, free healthcare (freer than nhs at some points....), benefits systems etc.

Sometimes it's just not doable anyway so there should be safe option.

These are a great idea, as someone who is fiercely pro abortion and pro choice and absolutely pro baby boxes.
Not everyone is lucky enough to have a strong support network behind them. Im one of the lucky ones who did have a strong support network and they still have my first born son 10 years after I left. If I hadn’t had them, I’m sure I’d have used one of those boxes when he was a few months old.
Children can be conceived in happy relationships but then something happens. Illness, death, loss of a job.

My thoughts exactly.

Wrt the suggestion that a baby left in a baby box will never know his or her medical history, etc...

The safe haven boxes dotted around the US a contain an orange bag for the person leaving the baby. Inside is information on the law, including the time frame for a mother to change her mind, and info on where to get medical help and how to go about this. There is also a crisis line number and information on how to register whatever is known of the baby's family medical history (anonymously if desired), which is linked to the box and time the baby was placed there. Boxes are silent alarmed to alert staff in the facility that a baby has been placed in the box there.

In addition, the safe haven website crisis line can talk through options with a mother before a baby is born, and the organisation does follow up with clients in crisis. Options include finding social service support with a view to keeping the baby, as well as person to person surrender of the baby, and also leaving the baby in the box.

They are not just bare bones drop off boxes.

@TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl

Abortion is legal in 39 states.

MH services and social workers are readily available in public schools in the US.

People really need to stop basing judgement of the US on assumptions derived from their UK life experience.

But the option here is likely to be:

Be left in a park or a bin or on some steps, with a high likelihood of dying and don't know your family medical history or be left in a warm box with quick access to care and don't know your family medical history.

If the boxes werent there babies would still be abandoned, this just provides a safe way for the baby

In an ideal world this wouldn't be needed but it is

@TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl

States provide free maternity care for women who lack maternity insurance under a Medicaid programme for maternity care.

The state healthcare offered in my state is for any pregnant woman and babies up to age five. This includes women who have no documentation of residency status.

It wouldn't matter if there was all the support in the world, extremely comprehensive sex education, and the least strict abortion laws you can possibly imagine. There is always going to be some teen girl who is scared and confused. There is always going to be that woman that didn't know she was pregnant. There is always going to be that abused person who doesn't want their child to grow up the same or who can't get away long enough to access other services.
And it is always heavily advertised when a baby is placed in one of these boxes and the parents are always told that they can come in and get medical care, counseling, etc. There are no criminal charges for leaving your baby in a safe space like this, so there are no repercussions for the parent if they come back later and ask for help and want their baby back. There will be a process they have to go through, but they can get their child back or put it up for adoption or just say that they still want to give the baby up but wanted to give their information for medical and ancestry reasons.
These may have been encouraged by anti-abortionists, but they are also encouraged by pro-choice people. I actually cannot see one single reason that anyone would be against them existing.
Your argument seems to be that the existence of said boxes reduces healthcare options for families. In fact, it is exactly the opposite.
Also, you should know that you are using the same argument that anti-choice or forced birthers use. You claim that these boxes existence increases their use, that if they didn't exist, then abortion and other reproductive healthcare would be more available. Which is not true, more babies would just be thrown in the trash.
Similarly, anti-choice folks argue that abortion being legal just means that the abortion rate goes up and making it illegal makes it go down. Which is not true, more women would just die from back-alley abortions.

So many issues to unpack here abortion isn’t the only alternative or reason for this decision and being raped isn't the only acceptable reason to use abortion.

Women’s circumstances can change during pregnancy and the supports, physically, emotionally and financially could be removed. They might have once had the money, family and friends to assist with care, a home and no longer have what they need to support themselves and a baby. I say family and friend
support because many women need this as they have to work to pit a roof over their heads and childcare is not accessible.

many reasons for not being able to care for a baby
>You have coercive control which can is a real form of abuse.
>lack of access to education and contraception due to religious beliefs, abuse or demograph
>homelessness and poverty. Loss of jobs
>mental heath issues
>sexual assault
>Physical and financial abuse
>lack of community and family support for multiple reasons leaving the mother unable to talk to anyone about the pregnancy and feeling shame
>Cost of medical care during and after pregnancy, going in to debt when they could once have the money available
>loss of a partner / grief
>unable to access abortion either due to changes in law/ no access to money or being too late in pregnancy. And before anyone goes on the myth path.. late term abortions are not provided to healthy babies. Removing a baby from miscarriage is called an abortion
>change of mind and unable to reach out to services for any of the reasons listed above and apply for adoption.

All Im saying is its a complex issue and everyone’s situation is different. The best outcome is the place the baby with someone who can provide care. The mother has an opportunity to come forth and work with services or remain anonymous. Although services do try to find the mother as they are aware of all the reasons above and know that she made the hardest decision in order to put her child’s needs first and want to help her too.

These boxes save lives

Yes, not shaming single mothers enough is the cause for babies being abandoned. Sorry but what kind of stupid logic is this? It is shame that makes people abandon and leave babies for dead in the first place, this happens more frequently in less economically developed countries where there is more stigma.

Everyone wants to raise their child with a partner. Have never heard single parenthood promoted above two parent households. And even so, empowering single parents (again) would reduce abandonment

Your very lucky and would not use this service however someone out there who was desperate and has no other options may and thank god for her and her baby don't be horrified life can be hard u cannot judge

Yes - and which is going to be better for an adopted child to find out?

We don’t know who your mum was; you were found in a park or -

We don’t know who your mum was but she made sure you were safe in the baby box.

*But the option here is likely to be:

Be left in a park or a bin or on some steps, with a high likelihood of dying and don't know your family medical history or be left in a warm box with quick access to care and don't know your family medical history. *

This is what I would challenge. I doubt (without seeing evidence) that the alternative for someone with the capacity and wherewithal to search out and use a baby box would have been to leave their baby in a dumpster.

The women in the depths of a mental crisis or drug addition or whatever circumstances so severe that they would leave their baby in a dumpster, are probably still going to leave them in a dumpster.

The mothers that put their babies into in a baby box might would have been more likely to have presented to healthcare or other services if the box wasn't available, and received support.

So where you see "73 lives saved" I worry that it is "73 babies separated from their vulnerable mothers, without proper consent or consultation or support, who were left without any care for their physical and mental health, or social issues".

Who knows whether the mother is a child who has been raped? Who knows whether she has been coerced into leaving the baby? Who knows whether the father or other relatives has been offered the opportunity to raise the child?

Here is some more information from the US as to why some people believe these boxes are unethical and damaging for women and babies.

stopshbbnow.org/why/

Nobody puts their baby in a box for a stranger to find unless they believe that the baby will be better off without them.

There is a very very very long list of why people might feel compelled to use these boxes, men and women just not being "ready" is a (probably not that common) one. Let's talk about providing: better mental health support, practical support for people to leave abusive relationships, support for people to stop being abusers, a welfare system that actually works, affordable childcare, a healthcare system that actually works etc etc.

OP, you seem to think that this is a new thing, and have been influenced by the fact that in the case of the one you've heard about, the person who initiated it is anti abortion.

But baby boxes have been around for years, and long before the recent decision which has made abortion much more diffictult for women in some US states to access.

I think it's important that a decent period of time is allowed before any baby can be adopted in case the mother comes back and changes her mind, but I don't have any problem with the boxes themselves.

@erehj

Vulnerable women have abortions too. Let's not pretend there's never any pressure from a partner or a family to abort, or that women feel they have an option every time when it comesnto abortion.