Surname wars - who is unreasonable?

[Snoozingandlosing12]

Going to try and be completely objective to avoid swaying opinions.

I’ve been with DP for many years. We have two DC. We aren’t married but would both quite like to get married. DP has a double-barrelled surname. The first name of his surname is difficult to pronounce correctly for English people. When it’s incorrectly pronounced it rhymes with my first name. Think ‘Mrs Dawn Lawn’ but not as nice sounding and more humorous.

When we had DC we double-barrelled their surnames (not my preference) with my surname first and then the second part of his surname. I’m not keen on this. I would prefer they just have my surname or just the second part of his surname.

Now here’s the AIBU part. DP says he isn’t happy that we completely dropped the ‘Lawn’ part of his surname and that if we were to get married he would want the children’s names to be changed to have that part. He says he feels strongly tied to the ‘Lawn’ surname and hurt that his children don’t have it. My attitude is very much that I don’t care much about their surname, but I care that they have a surname that I could take if we were to get married (I would reluctantly take the same double-barrelled one they have) and that they don’t have a name that is hard to pronounce or could be teased.

This is a big obstacle to whether we would get married as he feels so strongly about this name. Who’s being unreasonable?

Do what is best for the children - don’t complicate their lives more complicated by changing their surname or giving them a difficult surname to pronounce

Words have connotations.

This one implies that female names are temporary/transient. It stems from the time that women weren’t legal entities in their own right, rather owned by men.

Surely something we should be eschewing in 2023?

I know someone who double barreled their children with their dad's 'difficult' last name with their mother's 'simple' name. Think "<child's name> Doowopagogo - Smythe". Each one of their children ended up dropping their dad's last name and going only by 'Smythe'. OP's DP may end up finding that his children 'erase' his name altogether in similar fashion.

My vote is to leave well enough alone! OP's DP had his chance to insist on his 'difficult' last name when the births were registered so that ship has sailed.

Personally I think he's is trying to set conditions that mean he can delay or cancel any marriage. Hope OP is not financially dependent on him.

This is a tough choice.
I aren't married to my partner, but decided to give our son his surname, as mine was always spelt wrong. No matter how slow you say it on the phone. I have learnt how to say it using the phonetic alphabet, but when I said it phonetically, it still got spelt wrong, I think I confused the person on the phone, with the phonetics.
I know this will not help, but double barrelled names, came around, because of iligitamet children. (when parents were not married, both surnames were used) hench the double barrel. But you could just keep your surname, when you get married, you don't have to take his.

There's a reason why it's traditionally been the father's surname. Because mothers wanted to cement as strong a relationship as they could between a child that they were 100% confident was theirs, and a father who could never be 100% sure it was his. Having a father's name conferred legitimacy.

Science has solved that problem - we have cheap, reliable, available technology that would allow paternity testing of all children at birth. And yet, our social norms have not yet evolved for this to be commonplace. Wonder why that is? Address that elephant in the room, and I suspect it will matter far less to the dads what the children are called. Until then though, these symbols matter.

What’s the problem you just keeping your own name, him keeping his name, and the children having the combo they have already???
Marriage doesn’t mean you have to start swapping names. He needs to realise that the name is the least important part of the commitment, especially in these “modern” times.

Well if he can’t compromise and respect your opinion about not liking his surname for you or the kids, then I don’t think I’d bother marrying him. If he had such strong views about names he should’ve voiced them before choosing childrens’ names and registering them.
i feel he’s using a marriage as a
way to manipulate you into changing the kids names… the whole ‘ I won’t marry you unless you all take on my name’ is crappy of him!! Tell him you’ll not be blackmailed so forget the marriage…

Has he considered taking your name?

You don't need to answer. I know.

Surnames are about differentiating between people with the same first name.

Traditionally apprentices took on their 'master's' name when they finished their apprenticeship, hence so many Taylors and Smiths around (Jones in Wales).

In that way they are also associated with ownership, does he think he will own you after marriage?

I would not change the children's name, they may feel as strongly about their names as he does about his, why is he more important?

John Bishop used to joke about the posh kids at school arriving with a new bag at the start of term, and the poor kids who arrived with bruises and a new surname.

Tell him you are having second thoughts about the marriage and he should get married to his dad, since he obviously cares more about his dad than he does about you.

Totally agree with this! Most women don’t have any say in their’s and the children’s surname when they get married! He needs to suck it up and be relieved that you haven’t insisted on the children having your surname only. You’ve met him halfway and it sounds you’re the mature one here for thinking it through the way you have. He needs to get over it - at least he still gets to keep his surname. I would draw the line OP - you’ve done enough. You will be forever resentful if you agree to something which makes you uncomfortable and is for life.

Wouldn’t change our kid’s name now even if I felt we’d got it completely wrong.

The time for his great ties to tradition and passing on his name and doing everything the conservative way passed when he didn’t want to get married to the mother of his children before they were born.

WTF? Every woman (actually, every person) has a choice about what to do with their surname. There is nothing automatic that happens upon marriage or divorce or anything else. You opt in to name changes, always. Same with naming children.

Some women change their name without thinking about it. it’s maddening, but it’s not the same as having no choice.

You can’t lose your name under any circumstances - it is an active choice.

When we got married kids were 6 and 4. They already had husbands surname, and it is a 'nice' name eg as teenagers they like it.
I thought I would take it too, on marriage and kids were very keen. I tried it, but I didn't like it. It felt like my mother in laws name, not mine.
I went back to my original surname, which is long, hard to spell, and I disliked as a child.
You don't all have to have the same name.

Exactly. This should not be a caveat to getting married. He either wants to marry you or doesn't.

Just dont change your names. You can get married without changing names

Calm down Sweet Cheeks 😉. I’m not suggesting women don’t have a choice, but in some cultures women are expected to take on their husband’s name. Some men insist on it and some women would never think to challenge it. Of course things are changing now than ever before but you will (obviously) be surprised how many women just assume their partner’s name without any discord. Each to their own, though for the sake of this thread, I reckon OP has gone above and beyond and her partner obviously has old fashioned values which usually lead to patriarchal tendencies and can cause a rift in their relationship

If OP’s partner had old fashioned values he would want to be married to th e other of his children and would have done so before they were born.

To be fair, it's hardly people's fault if they don't know how an unusual name is spelled. I've come across many Jewish, Eastern European named etc that are fairly common in the US but very rare in the UK.

Is it like being called Judy poody Brown? He is being a bit silly. And why should you change your name? Maybe just add the lawn at the end of all the names? He is lucky the kids, how old? have his name at all.

Sounds like you want to scrub his non English name from existence.

@corcaithecat
🤣

Yes. Absolutely. Red flag.

Sounds like you both need to give a little. Non one wants to set their kids up to be teased and that should be the main concern here. Split his surname and give the part as a middle name and the last part as a last name. Both kids will have the same middle name, he will get a partial victory as will you. You both have to give a little to make this work.